4 ms·

There is also no testing or vision rechecking requirement, so there are just a lot of people on the roads who should probably have their license taken away.

torstenvl 3y ago
I'm curious as to the states involved. Michigan takes car culture seriously. You have to parallel park on the drivers test, and the Secretary of State offices (there is no DMV, because what a waste of taxpayer funds...) have eye charts when you renew your license.
- pests 3y ago
  I never realized our test was anything strange. Parallel parking was the big scary part of the test but I remember it being huge, almost two car lengths long or something. It was very easy. The eye chart machines (they are electronic and usually at each clerk window) look like they are from the 70s for what its worth.
- cgriswald 3y ago
  CA here. The eye charts are a joke. They’re visible at all times so you could easily memorize them during your long wait (even with appointment); and the specific line they have you read is huge. I’ve never looked into it but I suspect it’s just to show you can read a sign on the highway.
  - torstenvl 3y ago
    Your comment seems odd. If the vision test is enough to show you can read a sign on the highway, why does that make it a joke? Are you suggesting that someone shouldn't have a license if their vision is not correctable to 20/20, even if it's good enough for all essential driving tasks?
    - cgriswald 3y ago
      It’s a joke because the testing method is inadequate to prevent even the simplest of cheating and does not adequately test that the driver’s vision legally qualifies for an unrestricted license.
    - bobthepanda 3y ago
      people drive on more than just highways. particularly on a street, road signage is not nearly as large
      - torstenvl 3y ago
        Fair enough. Thanks!
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  WA allows renewal by mail without even stepping into an office. WA also allows transferring of drivers licenses without additional testing. To me, this is the most problematic part, because different states have different rules around priority, proper usage of the left lane, etc. and WA is a transplant destination, and the resulting mix of driver backgrounds is chaotic. As a general example, in WA pedestrians have priority at all intersections, including where there is no visibly marked crosswalk, but this is not true in all states.
vkou 3y ago
Young people get into more crashes (and more deadly crashes) than old people, we should probably just flat out not allow people under 25 to drive long before we get around to worrying about things like vision checks.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  Young people have more accidents because they have less experience driving. Raising the driving age doesn't help with that. If anything it should be lowered so that more of the learning period occurs when people are still under parental supervision.
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    It's also because younger people are more impulsive. If the driving age were raised to 25 there would be fewer accidents among beginner drivers. Of course it would be terrible in so many other ways, but the point is the accidents are not just about lack of experience. I agree that having more of a supervised learning period would be a good idea.
    - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
      > It's also because younger people are more impulsive. This is more of a stereotype than a universal constant, and you could just as easily say things like "younger people have faster reflexes and better eyesight" etc. The question isn't whether some group in the aggregate has different statistical properties, it's whether we're willing to discriminate against an entire class of people, including the ones who aren't the cause of it, because of that statistical correlation. Which is the same reason people saying things like "people over 65 should have their license taken away" are just as wrong.
      - vkou 3y ago
        > This is more of a stereotype than a universal constant, It's a well-known fact. You may also observe how prisons are full of young people. Brains that are still developing are far more likely to make really stupid decisions without regard for consequences. If I were to pick qualities for a driver, and had to choose between 'Makes good decisions' versus 'Faster reflexes', I'd pick the former any day. Note that we don't let 12 year-olds drive. We have arbitrary age cutoffs that have nothing to do with quantifiable capability.

torstenvl 3y ago

I'm curious as to the states involved. Michigan takes car culture seriously. You have to parallel park on the drivers test, and the Secretary of State offices (there is no DMV, because what a waste of taxpayer funds...) have eye charts when you renew your license.

pests 3y ago
I never realized our test was anything strange. Parallel parking was the big scary part of the test but I remember it being huge, almost two car lengths long or something. It was very easy. The eye chart machines (they are electronic and usually at each clerk window) look like they are from the 70s for what its worth.
cgriswald 3y ago
CA here. The eye charts are a joke. They’re visible at all times so you could easily memorize them during your long wait (even with appointment); and the specific line they have you read is huge. I’ve never looked into it but I suspect it’s just to show you can read a sign on the highway.
- torstenvl 3y ago
  Your comment seems odd. If the vision test is enough to show you can read a sign on the highway, why does that make it a joke? Are you suggesting that someone shouldn't have a license if their vision is not correctable to 20/20, even if it's good enough for all essential driving tasks?
  - cgriswald 3y ago
    It’s a joke because the testing method is inadequate to prevent even the simplest of cheating and does not adequately test that the driver’s vision legally qualifies for an unrestricted license.
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    people drive on more than just highways. particularly on a street, road signage is not nearly as large
    - torstenvl 3y ago
      Fair enough. Thanks!
bobthepanda 3y ago
WA allows renewal by mail without even stepping into an office. WA also allows transferring of drivers licenses without additional testing. To me, this is the most problematic part, because different states have different rules around priority, proper usage of the left lane, etc. and WA is a transplant destination, and the resulting mix of driver backgrounds is chaotic. As a general example, in WA pedestrians have priority at all intersections, including where there is no visibly marked crosswalk, but this is not true in all states.

vkou 3y ago

Young people get into more crashes (and more deadly crashes) than old people, we should probably just flat out not allow people under 25 to drive long before we get around to worrying about things like vision checks.

AnthonyMouse 3y ago
Young people have more accidents because they have less experience driving. Raising the driving age doesn't help with that. If anything it should be lowered so that more of the learning period occurs when people are still under parental supervision.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  It's also because younger people are more impulsive. If the driving age were raised to 25 there would be fewer accidents among beginner drivers. Of course it would be terrible in so many other ways, but the point is the accidents are not just about lack of experience. I agree that having more of a supervised learning period would be a good idea.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    > It's also because younger people are more impulsive. This is more of a stereotype than a universal constant, and you could just as easily say things like "younger people have faster reflexes and better eyesight" etc. The question isn't whether some group in the aggregate has different statistical properties, it's whether we're willing to discriminate against an entire class of people, including the ones who aren't the cause of it, because of that statistical correlation. Which is the same reason people saying things like "people over 65 should have their license taken away" are just as wrong.
    - vkou 3y ago
      > This is more of a stereotype than a universal constant, It's a well-known fact. You may also observe how prisons are full of young people. Brains that are still developing are far more likely to make really stupid decisions without regard for consequences. If I were to pick qualities for a driver, and had to choose between 'Makes good decisions' versus 'Faster reflexes', I'd pick the former any day. Note that we don't let 12 year-olds drive. We have arbitrary age cutoffs that have nothing to do with quantifiable capability.