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I think part of it is the current situation lends itself to more pro-gaza headlines. For starters the situation is evolving more on that front. Every new actio

I think part of it is the current situation lends itself to more pro-gaza headlines. For starters the situation is evolving more on that front. Every new action is a potential headline for palestine. On the other hand Israel's position is much more static: They want to prevent the slaughter on oct 7 from happening again, and are using force to do so. That hasn't changed. You can't make new headlines out of it. Its probably also inherent to the fact that Israel is currently on the offensive, outside of its territory in an asymetrical urban conflict. The optics on that are always going to be bad for the state in Israel's position regardless of how justified it is. Urban conflict is always a bloody mess, same with asymetric conflicts. When israel bombs a hospital that makes a great headline. Its easy to understand and verify - hospital used to be there, now it is not. Its emotional - everyone knows in normal circumstances hospitals are supposed to be off limits. The Israeli side is hard to fit into a headline - hospital bombed after it became a military target due to use by militants, in accordance with international law and the principles of porportionality and distinction. For starters that is a mouthful to be a headline. It lacks emotional punch because now we are talking about legalese not deaths of innocets. Its hard to understand - most non experts do not know what the doctrine of porportionality& distinction is. Even if they do, we do not know in the fog of war what israel knew when targeting it and if it was reasonable at the time. Even if we did, where precisely the line is can be controversially grey. Its not like there is a huge amount of case law on this. Determing if it was legal would probably require hundreds of pages of legal argumentation. Even then, there is a whole other question of if the line international law draws is the correct one morally, which you could write a book on. Its just very hard to put all that in a news article. So i don't think it is HN's fault that most of these articles lean more anti-israel. Its just much easier to write about things from that perspective. It is much more black and white and requires much less nuance and context.

Jensson 3y ago
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- hef19898 3y ago
  Because there is no proof Hamas did that? And for some reason, sometimes, not everyone wants headlines to lie?
  - throwaway2990 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - hef19898 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - throwaway2990 3y ago
        Why did they take hostages to begin with. And why did they take them past perfectly fine hospitals? There was no risk.
        hef19898 3y ago
        Why did they take hostages? Because it was a terror attack? And no, of course there is no threat if suoerior military starts levelling the city around you, why would that be dangerous in anyway... By the way, the IDF already killed three hostages waving white flags. Nice rescue operation, I have to admit. At least now those hostages are safe from both, Hamas and the IDF.
        throwaway2990 3y ago
        Wow clutching hard at straws to justify hamas and deny their usage of hospitals as military bases.
        hef19898 3y ago
        There is no proof Hamas ever did that so. No investigation foind any, and there have been multiple. Not sure what to think of people that are ok with bombing hospitals for any reason at all, even the made up ones the parrot around. And no, I do not justify Hamas. I do fully understand why they are so radical so, but this is quite different from justifying them. You on the other hand are trying to justify the targeting of civilians and non-combatants in war. And that targeting, that is a war crime.
trhway 3y ago
[flagged]
throwawayhate 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Wolfenstein98k 3y ago
  [flagged]
- selfmodruntime 3y ago
  These are the horrifying realities of war. People may die. Borders may move. Atrocities may happen. Does the defender turn into the aggressor and vice versa, when the „Winning“ side changes? Should war just „end“ at this point?
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Does the aggressor change? Yes, absolutely, it can and does. Shouod a war "just" end? Also, a resounding YES, a war should end as soon as possible. Unless, of course, one side just wants and needs the war to go on and on...
    - selfmodruntime 3y ago
      > Should a war "just" end? Also, a resounding YES Unfortunately, you lose the privilege to call for an end of war when you've (at some point in time) been in the position of the aggressor. War, in itself, is not a number game. You can't just expect the defender of the current conflict to return the favor by doing exactly as much damage as the aggressor did. War is a means to an end and by initiating aggressions, you have to face the very real possibility that the intentions of your opponent may not match your own.
      - hef19898 3y ago
        The saw the wind and now reat the worldwind reasoning? Already deeply flawed back when Bomber Harris came up with it. Yes, once your initial defence is sucessful, you have no justification to turn around and become the aggressor. This is real life and not a game of Civilisation. In more specific terms regarding the conflict in Palestine: How dar do you want to go back to define the "original" aggressor? Which is utterly pointless, because being attacked is no carte blanche to use whatever means and do whatever you want with the, very loosly defined, "enemy".
incognos 3y ago
[flagged]
- bawolff 3y ago
  > Prior to making unfounded statements, might I suggest you become informed? > Israel has occupied Palestine since 1948 Perhaps you should check your dates before calling people misinformed. Gaza was occupied by Egypt until 1967.
  - incognos 3y ago
    For the record, you do not have to occupy 100% to be an occupier. If you push the current residents out of their own homes and lands and occupy said land, you are an occupier regardless of the amount of land you occupy. The fact still stands, Israel has occupied Palestine since 1948. Also a fact, Israel invented terrorism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing)
    - madsmith 3y ago
      Just leaving this here without making simplistic claims of what constitutes a fact. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_terrorism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_terrorism)
      - incognos 3y ago
        My bad, I meant modern terrorism. As a footnote, dynamite, which is used in terroristic endeavours, was invented by Alfred Nobel, the founder of the Nobel Peace Prize...
    - bavell 3y ago
      Interesting, do you think illegal immigrants are occupiers? By your definition it would seem so.
      - 3y ago
jay-barronville 3y ago
This isn’t rocket science. Israel has killed more than 13,000 children in less than 5 months. This is only counting the children. That’s almost 4.5 9/11’s in children alone. And our (Americans) taxpayer dollars is helping sponsor these war crimes. Israel has one of the most advanced military and intelligence apparatuses in the world. And Palestinians are some of the most surveilled humans in the world. Israel knows where they’re dropping the bombs and the demographics of the humans who live there. No amount of gaslighting the international community and unsophisticated normies changes this fact. There’s no excuse for these war crimes and it’s an utter shame that the West, led by America, continue to allow Israel to use the tragic events of October 7th as an excuse to murder innocent Palestinian civilians (most of whom are children).
- gataca 3y ago
  Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas, the same people who claimed 500 people died in a hospital Israel bombed but when it was revealed their own rocket bombed it the casualty numbers dropped 10-fold, war isn’t arithmetic. The United States killed many more Japanese civilians than American civilians who died during the war, that doesn’t make them right. Hamas has miles of tunnels to provide cover for their rapists but doesn’t allow civilians to shelter, it’s tragic that Hamas is killing its own people this way but Israel should continue until Hamas is defeated like Germany was.
  - jay-barronville 3y ago
    > Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas […] This is an unserious argument. 1. The numbers come from Gaza’s Ministry of Health, which is indeed “controlled” by Hamas since Hamas is their governing entity. 2. The Ministry has no verifiable history of being wrong on the civilian casualty numbers. In fact, it’s quite the opposite: The Ministry’s numbers have held up to scrutiny in ALL of the previous wars (including scrutiny from Israel) [0]. 3. The Biden Administration has corroborated the numbers. 4. Israel hasn’t denied the numbers. In fact, in one report from the IDF a couple months ago, they corroborated the Ministry’s numbers at the time. 5. The same silly argument could be made to dismiss just about anything coming from Israel given their documented history of lying and even manipulating our (American) media, from lies about beheaded babies [1] to pushing propaganda via U.S. media outlets like the New York Times [2]. > The United States killed many more Japanese civilians than American civilians who died during the war, that doesn’t make them right. […] This is just a whataboutism and another unserious argument. One evil act doesn’t justify another evil act. This is as serious of an argument as someone trying to justify slavery in 2024 by pointing to America’s history with slavery. [0]: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033 https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-mini... [1]: https://theintercept.com/2023/12/14/israel-biden-beheaded-babies-false https://theintercept.com/2023/12/14/israel-biden-beheaded-ba... [2]: https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7 https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schw...

Jensson 3y ago

[flagged]

hef19898 3y ago
Because there is no proof Hamas did that? And for some reason, sometimes, not everyone wants headlines to lie?
- throwaway2990 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - hef19898 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - throwaway2990 3y ago
      Why did they take hostages to begin with. And why did they take them past perfectly fine hospitals? There was no risk.
      - hef19898 3y ago
        Why did they take hostages? Because it was a terror attack? And no, of course there is no threat if suoerior military starts levelling the city around you, why would that be dangerous in anyway... By the way, the IDF already killed three hostages waving white flags. Nice rescue operation, I have to admit. At least now those hostages are safe from both, Hamas and the IDF.
        throwaway2990 3y ago
        Wow clutching hard at straws to justify hamas and deny their usage of hospitals as military bases.
        hef19898 3y ago
        There is no proof Hamas ever did that so. No investigation foind any, and there have been multiple. Not sure what to think of people that are ok with bombing hospitals for any reason at all, even the made up ones the parrot around. And no, I do not justify Hamas. I do fully understand why they are so radical so, but this is quite different from justifying them. You on the other hand are trying to justify the targeting of civilians and non-combatants in war. And that targeting, that is a war crime.

trhway 3y ago

[flagged]

throwawayhate 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Wolfenstein98k 3y ago
[flagged]
selfmodruntime 3y ago
These are the horrifying realities of war. People may die. Borders may move. Atrocities may happen. Does the defender turn into the aggressor and vice versa, when the „Winning“ side changes? Should war just „end“ at this point?
- hef19898 3y ago
  Does the aggressor change? Yes, absolutely, it can and does. Shouod a war "just" end? Also, a resounding YES, a war should end as soon as possible. Unless, of course, one side just wants and needs the war to go on and on...
  - selfmodruntime 3y ago
    > Should a war "just" end? Also, a resounding YES Unfortunately, you lose the privilege to call for an end of war when you've (at some point in time) been in the position of the aggressor. War, in itself, is not a number game. You can't just expect the defender of the current conflict to return the favor by doing exactly as much damage as the aggressor did. War is a means to an end and by initiating aggressions, you have to face the very real possibility that the intentions of your opponent may not match your own.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      The saw the wind and now reat the worldwind reasoning? Already deeply flawed back when Bomber Harris came up with it. Yes, once your initial defence is sucessful, you have no justification to turn around and become the aggressor. This is real life and not a game of Civilisation. In more specific terms regarding the conflict in Palestine: How dar do you want to go back to define the "original" aggressor? Which is utterly pointless, because being attacked is no carte blanche to use whatever means and do whatever you want with the, very loosly defined, "enemy".

incognos 3y ago

[flagged]

bawolff 3y ago
> Prior to making unfounded statements, might I suggest you become informed? > Israel has occupied Palestine since 1948 Perhaps you should check your dates before calling people misinformed. Gaza was occupied by Egypt until 1967.
- incognos 3y ago
  For the record, you do not have to occupy 100% to be an occupier. If you push the current residents out of their own homes and lands and occupy said land, you are an occupier regardless of the amount of land you occupy. The fact still stands, Israel has occupied Palestine since 1948. Also a fact, Israel invented terrorism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing)
  - madsmith 3y ago
    Just leaving this here without making simplistic claims of what constitutes a fact. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_terrorism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_terrorism)
    - incognos 3y ago
      My bad, I meant modern terrorism. As a footnote, dynamite, which is used in terroristic endeavours, was invented by Alfred Nobel, the founder of the Nobel Peace Prize...
  - bavell 3y ago
    Interesting, do you think illegal immigrants are occupiers? By your definition it would seem so.
    - 3y ago

jay-barronville 3y ago

This isn’t rocket science. Israel has killed more than 13,000 children in less than 5 months. This is only counting the children. That’s almost 4.5 9/11’s in children alone. And our (Americans) taxpayer dollars is helping sponsor these war crimes. Israel has one of the most advanced military and intelligence apparatuses in the world. And Palestinians are some of the most surveilled humans in the world. Israel knows where they’re dropping the bombs and the demographics of the humans who live there. No amount of gaslighting the international community and unsophisticated normies changes this fact. There’s no excuse for these war crimes and it’s an utter shame that the West, led by America, continue to allow Israel to use the tragic events of October 7th as an excuse to murder innocent Palestinian civilians (most of whom are children).

gataca 3y ago
Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas, the same people who claimed 500 people died in a hospital Israel bombed but when it was revealed their own rocket bombed it the casualty numbers dropped 10-fold, war isn’t arithmetic. The United States killed many more Japanese civilians than American civilians who died during the war, that doesn’t make them right. Hamas has miles of tunnels to provide cover for their rapists but doesn’t allow civilians to shelter, it’s tragic that Hamas is killing its own people this way but Israel should continue until Hamas is defeated like Germany was.
- jay-barronville 3y ago
  > Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas […] This is an unserious argument. 1. The numbers come from Gaza’s Ministry of Health, which is indeed “controlled” by Hamas since Hamas is their governing entity. 2. The Ministry has no verifiable history of being wrong on the civilian casualty numbers. In fact, it’s quite the opposite: The Ministry’s numbers have held up to scrutiny in ALL of the previous wars (including scrutiny from Israel) [0]. 3. The Biden Administration has corroborated the numbers. 4. Israel hasn’t denied the numbers. In fact, in one report from the IDF a couple months ago, they corroborated the Ministry’s numbers at the time. 5. The same silly argument could be made to dismiss just about anything coming from Israel given their documented history of lying and even manipulating our (American) media, from lies about beheaded babies [1] to pushing propaganda via U.S. media outlets like the New York Times [2]. > The United States killed many more Japanese civilians than American civilians who died during the war, that doesn’t make them right. […] This is just a whataboutism and another unserious argument. One evil act doesn’t justify another evil act. This is as serious of an argument as someone trying to justify slavery in 2024 by pointing to America’s history with slavery. [0]: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033 https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-mini... [1]: https://theintercept.com/2023/12/14/israel-biden-beheaded-babies-false https://theintercept.com/2023/12/14/israel-biden-beheaded-ba... [2]: https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7 https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schw...