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> The reason the NTSB wants to know the exact people involved is not to assign blame. The goal, and sole reason the NTSB exists, is to determine why an accident

> The reason the NTSB wants to know the exact people involved is not to assign blame. The goal, and sole reason the NTSB exists, is to determine why an accident occurred, so they can work out what needs to happen to stop it happening again. Anyone who has ever worked at basically any corporation knows this is career suicide. If Boeing ever discloses who that person is, he will effectively be barred from working in aviation for the rest of his career, full stop.

krisoft 3y ago
What are you talking about? The NTSB regularly interviews individuals of all sort. This is not career suicide.
- lopkeny12ko 3y ago
  I'll state it another way: If you were an airline, would you knowingly hire the same maintenance engineer who installed a door that failed and nearly killed hundreds of people? If you were a patient, would you knowingly accept surgery from a doctor who had a documented record of making fatal mistakes in surgeries? Once this man's name is released, he will be unhireable.
  - krisoft 3y ago
    > Once this man's name is released There are multiple unfounded assumptions here. Just because boeing tells the investigators the name of the individual the name does not “get released”. NTSB reports most of the time describe people in general terms such as “the captain of the accident flight” or “maintainer 2”. Then the assumption is that it is a single individual, when it is most likely multiple people. (There were multiple aircrafts found with the missing screws.) Then of course you are also assuming a gender. Not everyone who works on airplanes is a male you know. > would you knowingly hire the same maintenance engineer who installed a door that failed Yes. Assuming that it wasn’t an intentional act of sabotage, my answer is yes. We don’t get good results by assuming that nobody makes mistakes.
    - olliej 3y ago
      > > would you knowingly hire the same maintenance engineer who installed a door that failed > Yes. Assuming that it wasn’t an intentional act of sabotage, my answer is yes. We don’t get good results by assuming that nobody makes mistakes. And in fact that's the whole point of these interviews. A safety system that fails if a single person makes a mistake indicates a failure of the safety system, not the individual that actually made the mistake. The design of the system is meant to be such that even if one of there was a mechanic that was trying to intentionally sabotage the maintenance it would not result in a safety issue.
olliej 3y ago
So a few points: 1. Pilots, even those responsible for accidents, talk to the NTSB, and unless grossly negligent continue to be pilots. The people who do get blackballed are the ones that actually report unsafe behavior before accidents occur. 2. If someone was unreasonably negligent in a way that caused an accident or death, then they should not still be working in a field that impacts safety of others 3. If conditions at Boeing are what are causing these failures, then not interviewing the people who made the mistake means that the mistakes will happen again, until people actually do die. I'd like to know if you can point to cases where people who were not entirely at fault for an accident were forever unable to work in the industry, given you're saying that everyone knows it's career suicide I would expect every NTSB report of this kind to have resulted in the responsible parties being forever unable to work in the field, so this should be a long list. But also, if Boeing knows who this person is, and would fire them because of it, why would they not have already fired them? If they had, why would the person not have gone to the NTSB? and similar basic follow ups to your logic. It just seems super weird that you're claiming that no one talks to the NTSB because it's career suicide, when objectively the NTSB has spent decades interviewing everyone they can find that is involved in accidents.
xenadu02 3y ago
The NTSB redacts the names of individuals. None of the names Boeing hands over will ever be known to the public. No one will know they were interviewed by the NTSB nor who said what (even Boeing won't know that). At worst the final report will say "Engineer 1", "Engineer 2", etc. It is deliberately done this way to avoid the issue you describe. If people knew talking to the NTSB could get them doxxed and fired it would make cooperation impossible.

krisoft 3y ago

What are you talking about? The NTSB regularly interviews individuals of all sort. This is not career suicide.

lopkeny12ko 3y ago
I'll state it another way: If you were an airline, would you knowingly hire the same maintenance engineer who installed a door that failed and nearly killed hundreds of people? If you were a patient, would you knowingly accept surgery from a doctor who had a documented record of making fatal mistakes in surgeries? Once this man's name is released, he will be unhireable.
- krisoft 3y ago
  > Once this man's name is released There are multiple unfounded assumptions here. Just because boeing tells the investigators the name of the individual the name does not “get released”. NTSB reports most of the time describe people in general terms such as “the captain of the accident flight” or “maintainer 2”. Then the assumption is that it is a single individual, when it is most likely multiple people. (There were multiple aircrafts found with the missing screws.) Then of course you are also assuming a gender. Not everyone who works on airplanes is a male you know. > would you knowingly hire the same maintenance engineer who installed a door that failed Yes. Assuming that it wasn’t an intentional act of sabotage, my answer is yes. We don’t get good results by assuming that nobody makes mistakes.
  - olliej 3y ago
    > > would you knowingly hire the same maintenance engineer who installed a door that failed > Yes. Assuming that it wasn’t an intentional act of sabotage, my answer is yes. We don’t get good results by assuming that nobody makes mistakes. And in fact that's the whole point of these interviews. A safety system that fails if a single person makes a mistake indicates a failure of the safety system, not the individual that actually made the mistake. The design of the system is meant to be such that even if one of there was a mechanic that was trying to intentionally sabotage the maintenance it would not result in a safety issue.

olliej 3y ago

So a few points: 1. Pilots, even those responsible for accidents, talk to the NTSB, and unless grossly negligent continue to be pilots. The people who do get blackballed are the ones that actually report unsafe behavior before accidents occur. 2. If someone was unreasonably negligent in a way that caused an accident or death, then they should not still be working in a field that impacts safety of others 3. If conditions at Boeing are what are causing these failures, then not interviewing the people who made the mistake means that the mistakes will happen again, until people actually do die. I'd like to know if you can point to cases where people who were not entirely at fault for an accident were forever unable to work in the industry, given you're saying that everyone knows it's career suicide I would expect every NTSB report of this kind to have resulted in the responsible parties being forever unable to work in the field, so this should be a long list. But also, if Boeing knows who this person is, and would fire them because of it, why would they not have already fired them? If they had, why would the person not have gone to the NTSB? and similar basic follow ups to your logic. It just seems super weird that you're claiming that no one talks to the NTSB because it's career suicide, when objectively the NTSB has spent decades interviewing everyone they can find that is involved in accidents.

xenadu02 3y ago

The NTSB redacts the names of individuals. None of the names Boeing hands over will ever be known to the public. No one will know they were interviewed by the NTSB nor who said what (even Boeing won't know that). At worst the final report will say "Engineer 1", "Engineer 2", etc. It is deliberately done this way to avoid the issue you describe. If people knew talking to the NTSB could get them doxxed and fired it would make cooperation impossible.