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> Before you bring up Xbox or Playstation: those devices are not essential computing devices. Dude cmon this is not how the legal system works, you can't just

> Before you bring up Xbox or Playstation: those devices are not essential computing devices. Dude cmon this is not how the legal system works, you can't just pretend that there's such a thing as an "essential computing device" as if iPhones are a human right or some shit

wkat4242 3y ago
Human right? No. Human necessity in the modern world? Kinda yes. Some businesses are mobile-only now, not just mobile-first. And you need either a computer or a smartphone for many things now. You're really going to be locked out of a big part of normal life without a general computing device. An Xbox or PS5 is not needed to live a normal life (if you ask my girlfriend it's even the opposite :)
nmfisher 3y ago
> Dude cmon this is not how the legal system works, you can't just pretend that there's such a thing as an "essential computing device" as if iPhones are a human right or some shit If I want to file my taxes (in Australia), I need an authentication app that's only available on iOS or Android. I can't use an Xbox or a Playstation. That's the difference.
- overstay8930 3y ago
  There are authentication apps on windows, Mac, etc, and you also have the option of using something other than an electronic device. Before you say desktop OSs are not the same thing, it is to the government. The difference between iOS and macOS is the same as Windows XP and Windows Vista legally, Google only got dinged as a monopoly in the Epic case because of preferential treatment, not because it was "essential" or that the smartphone market is any way distinct or unique enough for that. Microsoft got dinged because it was 95% of the personal computing market in general. Apple is not even close here. It is fine to suggest abuse and sending warnings, but if you've even remotely looked at any of the legal cases the US government brought against tech companies in the past, you'd know how much of a joke it is when people talk like this.
  - nmfisher 3y ago
    The app is explicitly not available for desktop: "Will there be a desktop version of myGovID? No, a desktop version or browser-based version of myGovID will not be supported. To use myGovID, you will need your own compatible smart device." https://www.abr.gov.au/media-centre/featured-news/business-super-funds-charities/get-facts-mygovid-and-ram https://www.abr.gov.au/media-centre/featured-news/business-s... And given I'm overseas, I also do not have the option of using something other than an electronic device. To be honest, I don't even know if I could if I were living in Australia. In the real world, Apple/Android devices are in a completely separate category from gaming consoles.
    - overstay8930 3y ago
      Sounds like your problem is with your shitty government, not Apple for not accommodating your shitty government.
int_19h 3y ago
If we as a society collectively decide that they are, then they are.
jorvi 3y ago
I mean, they’re considered so essential that city / municipal governments will give them to poor people either for free or at extremely subsidized prices. Classes are given to tech illiterate or less able people to learn to access governmental services. That pretty much hits the threshold of a legal definition. Try it out, for the duration of a month only use your smartphone for texting and calls and do not touch any PC. If you balk at that idea, well, there you go.
- overstay8930 3y ago
  They give people flip phones, not iPhones. Why would I not touch a PC? You're just moving goalposts, Apple is not stopping you from buying a Chromebook. That's what anti-trust legislation is about.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - jorvi 3y ago
    > They give people flip phones, not iPhones. No, they give them smartphones. You are so woefully ignorant. > Why would I not touch a PC? You're just moving goalposts I am not, you are. We were talking about how essential these devices are to daily life. My post even explicitly talks about locking down PCs. It doesn't matter anyway, you are just looking to argue. I wish you good luck in life with that attitude.
    - overstay8930 3y ago
      Jitterbug (Lively) is the main contractor for these devices, yes they are getting flip phones. Just spend 30 seconds googling before lying because you just make yourself look like a fool. More to the point, everything you've said is just a lie. I don't want any luck from you.
lenkite 3y ago
Sorry dude, this is how the world is working today. A truckload of my local government apps only function on iOS/Android. They don't even have a web-site. They used to have one on the past, but due to "bad experiences" on mobile devices, they shuttered it. So, yes a smartphone is now an "essential computing device". This is no longer a matter of opinion. Its now a matter of fact.
- overstay8930 3y ago
  So your government physically blocks you from entering the government building to get something done? No? Congratulations, you just have a bad government. I can only watch cable news on TV, am I going to call that an essential computing device too?
  - MerManMaid 3y ago
    >I can only watch cable news on TV, am I going to call that an essential computing device too? If that is the only way you can find out about what is happening to the government responsible for your safety and wellbeing or alerts about impending disasters... absolutely! Phones are literally essential computing devices in modern society as it is the primary source of important information whether it be about family, government, or national emergencies for a large swath of the population.
    - overstay8930 3y ago
      > Phones are literally essential computing devices in modern society Cool, it doesn't matter because US courts disagree with you, even if they did agree with you, there's nothing in the constitution that says the welfare of American society is in jeopardy because Apple sets rules on their own devices that you don't have to buy. Your argument literally only makes sense if you pretend Android doesn't exist. It is not possible to exhibit monopolistic behavior if you are not a monopoly, and Apple is not a monopoly by any stretch of the definition.
  - tapoxi 3y ago
    I mean we have laws that regulate cable networks so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

wkat4242 3y ago

Human right? No. Human necessity in the modern world? Kinda yes. Some businesses are mobile-only now, not just mobile-first. And you need either a computer or a smartphone for many things now. You're really going to be locked out of a big part of normal life without a general computing device. An Xbox or PS5 is not needed to live a normal life (if you ask my girlfriend it's even the opposite :)

nmfisher 3y ago

> Dude cmon this is not how the legal system works, you can't just pretend that there's such a thing as an "essential computing device" as if iPhones are a human right or some shit If I want to file my taxes (in Australia), I need an authentication app that's only available on iOS or Android. I can't use an Xbox or a Playstation. That's the difference.

overstay8930 3y ago
There are authentication apps on windows, Mac, etc, and you also have the option of using something other than an electronic device. Before you say desktop OSs are not the same thing, it is to the government. The difference between iOS and macOS is the same as Windows XP and Windows Vista legally, Google only got dinged as a monopoly in the Epic case because of preferential treatment, not because it was "essential" or that the smartphone market is any way distinct or unique enough for that. Microsoft got dinged because it was 95% of the personal computing market in general. Apple is not even close here. It is fine to suggest abuse and sending warnings, but if you've even remotely looked at any of the legal cases the US government brought against tech companies in the past, you'd know how much of a joke it is when people talk like this.
- nmfisher 3y ago
  The app is explicitly not available for desktop: "Will there be a desktop version of myGovID? No, a desktop version or browser-based version of myGovID will not be supported. To use myGovID, you will need your own compatible smart device." https://www.abr.gov.au/media-centre/featured-news/business-super-funds-charities/get-facts-mygovid-and-ram https://www.abr.gov.au/media-centre/featured-news/business-s... And given I'm overseas, I also do not have the option of using something other than an electronic device. To be honest, I don't even know if I could if I were living in Australia. In the real world, Apple/Android devices are in a completely separate category from gaming consoles.
  - overstay8930 3y ago
    Sounds like your problem is with your shitty government, not Apple for not accommodating your shitty government.

int_19h 3y ago

If we as a society collectively decide that they are, then they are.

jorvi 3y ago

I mean, they’re considered so essential that city / municipal governments will give them to poor people either for free or at extremely subsidized prices. Classes are given to tech illiterate or less able people to learn to access governmental services. That pretty much hits the threshold of a legal definition. Try it out, for the duration of a month only use your smartphone for texting and calls and do not touch any PC. If you balk at that idea, well, there you go.

overstay8930 3y ago
They give people flip phones, not iPhones. Why would I not touch a PC? You're just moving goalposts, Apple is not stopping you from buying a Chromebook. That's what anti-trust legislation is about.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jorvi 3y ago
  > They give people flip phones, not iPhones. No, they give them smartphones. You are so woefully ignorant. > Why would I not touch a PC? You're just moving goalposts I am not, you are. We were talking about how essential these devices are to daily life. My post even explicitly talks about locking down PCs. It doesn't matter anyway, you are just looking to argue. I wish you good luck in life with that attitude.
  - overstay8930 3y ago
    Jitterbug (Lively) is the main contractor for these devices, yes they are getting flip phones. Just spend 30 seconds googling before lying because you just make yourself look like a fool. More to the point, everything you've said is just a lie. I don't want any luck from you.

lenkite 3y ago

Sorry dude, this is how the world is working today. A truckload of my local government apps only function on iOS/Android. They don't even have a web-site. They used to have one on the past, but due to "bad experiences" on mobile devices, they shuttered it. So, yes a smartphone is now an "essential computing device". This is no longer a matter of opinion. Its now a matter of fact.

overstay8930 3y ago
So your government physically blocks you from entering the government building to get something done? No? Congratulations, you just have a bad government. I can only watch cable news on TV, am I going to call that an essential computing device too?
- MerManMaid 3y ago
  >I can only watch cable news on TV, am I going to call that an essential computing device too? If that is the only way you can find out about what is happening to the government responsible for your safety and wellbeing or alerts about impending disasters... absolutely! Phones are literally essential computing devices in modern society as it is the primary source of important information whether it be about family, government, or national emergencies for a large swath of the population.
  - overstay8930 3y ago
    > Phones are literally essential computing devices in modern society Cool, it doesn't matter because US courts disagree with you, even if they did agree with you, there's nothing in the constitution that says the welfare of American society is in jeopardy because Apple sets rules on their own devices that you don't have to buy. Your argument literally only makes sense if you pretend Android doesn't exist. It is not possible to exhibit monopolistic behavior if you are not a monopoly, and Apple is not a monopoly by any stretch of the definition.
- tapoxi 3y ago
  I mean we have laws that regulate cable networks so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.