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> Israel will get shot at and not be allowed to shoot back. The logic doesn't really follow What shots exactly? the missiles? Attack the launch sites. They're

by shprd 3y ago

> Israel will get shot at and not be allowed to shoot back. The logic doesn't really follow What shots exactly? the missiles? Attack the launch sites. They're pretty clear as they expose themselves. Israel has 24/7 surveillance it shouldn't be a challenge. Can you support your claim by showing evidence that a hospital was used to launch missiles? You likely don't have evidence that Israel is targeting anything. It seems every street in the city was indiscriminately bombed, every hospital was distroyed, and tens of thousands of civilians were murdered. That's a massacre not a "response".

bawolff 3y ago
> What shots exactly? I would be referring to all forms of military violence, whether that be guns, rockets or something else. I also believe if the facility was being used to conduct the war in a significant capacity, e.g. as an ammunition store or as a command and control center then it becomes fair game. Just waiting around for someone to open fire, shoot back only when they are firing, and letting them escape back to their base of operations is not a way to prevent future attacks and puts the defender at an unreasonable disadvantage. This should still be subject to the doctrine of porportionality and discrimination of course. > Can you support your claim by showing evidence that a hospital was used to launch missiles? I never claimed that. It is especially impossible to show since hamas has not been using missiles in this conflict as far as i know. Perhaps you mean rockets? My main claim is that if the hospital is being used in any significant capacity to conduct military operations it is reasonable that it could be targeted. Whether any specific instance in this war is justified - i don't know, i don't have the full picture of what happened and i don't know what Israel knew at the time of targeting (intent matters). More to the point, i do not believe that allowing hamas impunity so long as they co-locate their activity near civilians is reasonable. > You likely don't have evidence that Israel is targeting anything. Only circumstantial based on the civilian death ratio being much lower in this conflict than in other wars where the military bombed indiscriminately. Generally crimes have an innocent until proven guiltly element. The onus is on evidence is the other way around. > That's a massacre not a "response". Whether or not it is ever justified to bomb a hospital is a very different conversation than whether the actions in this specific conflict are justified. For the latter the details matter a lot.
kaba0 3y ago
[flagged]
Wolfenstein98k 3y ago
The attack sites are in civilian areas.
nayaketo 3y ago
> What shots exactly? the missiles? Attack the launch sites. What if those launch sites are top of hospitals or media buildings?
- hef19898 3y ago
  There is no proof that ever happened... And even if, no, you do not bomb hospitals if you do not want to be the baddy.
- GordonS 3y ago
  And when has there been a shred of credible evidence to suggest such a thing?
  - septic-liqueur 3y ago
    A lot of evidence, if you choose to believe videos coming out of IDF. But to take a step back, why would Hamas operating from hospitals, schools and mosques surprise you in any way ? Would you then think anything different of them ? This is asymmetrical warfare. Of course they would use anything they can to create an advantage. Let's not kid ourselves. It's the same as using human shields. That's just how this type of war works. You work with what you have to survive and gain an advantage
- shprd 3y ago
  > What if those launch sites are top of hospitals or media buildings? Is that a claim or just a hypothetical scenario? If it's a claim, please provide evidance that supports hospitals were used to launch rockets. You know what is not hypothetical? the fact that Israel bombed hospitals, UN schools, churches, mosques, civilian shelters, ambulances, and killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians: women, children, journalists, UN staff, Red Crescent members. You know what else isn't hypothetical? Israeli minister's call to wipe out a Palestinian village. It's not about a hospital here or there. Just me typing that sentence makes me sick. The fact that we're past the point where a hospital bombing makes a difference in illustrating the crimes committed. Sadly, the attrocities are far greater. Here are some not hypothetical Massacres and war crimes committed by Israel: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_committed_by_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_committed_b... - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes - https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2017-07-16/ty-article-magazine/testimonies-from-the-censored-massacre-at-deir-yassin/0000017f-e364-d38f-a57f-e77689930000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2017-07-16/ty-article-ma...
gryzzly 3y ago
Why did 500 Israeli soldiers die in Gaza from your perspective?
- shprd 3y ago
  > Why did 500 Israeli soldiers die in Gaza from your perspective? Are saying you committed massacres and bombed hospitals, UN schools, mosques, churches, and ambulances, as some sort of retaliation? leveling the entire place, displacing a million, and killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians most of whom were women, children, medical staff and red cross members because...? enlighten me please
  - gryzzly 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - gryzzly 3y ago
    [flagged]

by shprd 3y ago

bawolff 3y ago

> What shots exactly? I would be referring to all forms of military violence, whether that be guns, rockets or something else. I also believe if the facility was being used to conduct the war in a significant capacity, e.g. as an ammunition store or as a command and control center then it becomes fair game. Just waiting around for someone to open fire, shoot back only when they are firing, and letting them escape back to their base of operations is not a way to prevent future attacks and puts the defender at an unreasonable disadvantage. This should still be subject to the doctrine of porportionality and discrimination of course. > Can you support your claim by showing evidence that a hospital was used to launch missiles? I never claimed that. It is especially impossible to show since hamas has not been using missiles in this conflict as far as i know. Perhaps you mean rockets? My main claim is that if the hospital is being used in any significant capacity to conduct military operations it is reasonable that it could be targeted. Whether any specific instance in this war is justified - i don't know, i don't have the full picture of what happened and i don't know what Israel knew at the time of targeting (intent matters). More to the point, i do not believe that allowing hamas impunity so long as they co-locate their activity near civilians is reasonable. > You likely don't have evidence that Israel is targeting anything. Only circumstantial based on the civilian death ratio being much lower in this conflict than in other wars where the military bombed indiscriminately. Generally crimes have an innocent until proven guiltly element. The onus is on evidence is the other way around. > That's a massacre not a "response". Whether or not it is ever justified to bomb a hospital is a very different conversation than whether the actions in this specific conflict are justified. For the latter the details matter a lot.

kaba0 3y ago

[flagged]

Wolfenstein98k 3y ago

The attack sites are in civilian areas.

nayaketo 3y ago

> What shots exactly? the missiles? Attack the launch sites. What if those launch sites are top of hospitals or media buildings?

hef19898 3y ago
There is no proof that ever happened... And even if, no, you do not bomb hospitals if you do not want to be the baddy.
GordonS 3y ago
And when has there been a shred of credible evidence to suggest such a thing?
- septic-liqueur 3y ago
  A lot of evidence, if you choose to believe videos coming out of IDF. But to take a step back, why would Hamas operating from hospitals, schools and mosques surprise you in any way ? Would you then think anything different of them ? This is asymmetrical warfare. Of course they would use anything they can to create an advantage. Let's not kid ourselves. It's the same as using human shields. That's just how this type of war works. You work with what you have to survive and gain an advantage
shprd 3y ago
> What if those launch sites are top of hospitals or media buildings? Is that a claim or just a hypothetical scenario? If it's a claim, please provide evidance that supports hospitals were used to launch rockets. You know what is not hypothetical? the fact that Israel bombed hospitals, UN schools, churches, mosques, civilian shelters, ambulances, and killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians: women, children, journalists, UN staff, Red Crescent members. You know what else isn't hypothetical? Israeli minister's call to wipe out a Palestinian village. It's not about a hospital here or there. Just me typing that sentence makes me sick. The fact that we're past the point where a hospital bombing makes a difference in illustrating the crimes committed. Sadly, the attrocities are far greater. Here are some not hypothetical Massacres and war crimes committed by Israel: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_committed_by_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_committed_b... - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes - https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2017-07-16/ty-article-magazine/testimonies-from-the-censored-massacre-at-deir-yassin/0000017f-e364-d38f-a57f-e77689930000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2017-07-16/ty-article-ma...

gryzzly 3y ago

Why did 500 Israeli soldiers die in Gaza from your perspective?

shprd 3y ago
> Why did 500 Israeli soldiers die in Gaza from your perspective? Are saying you committed massacres and bombed hospitals, UN schools, mosques, churches, and ambulances, as some sort of retaliation? leveling the entire place, displacing a million, and killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians most of whom were women, children, medical staff and red cross members because...? enlighten me please
- gryzzly 3y ago
  [flagged]
- gryzzly 3y ago
  [flagged]