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It's just noise. Scaling this to other examples: if there was a school shooter inside a school, should the school be bombed? The answer is a resounding no, but

It's just noise. Scaling this to other examples: if there was a school shooter inside a school, should the school be bombed? The answer is a resounding no, but with Gaza it turns into a yes. This is why the common rhetoric given from politicians and jingoists is that all of them are guilty and that no one is innocent. Using the same example, the workers and students of that school are de facto responsible because they allowed that school shooter to enter the school.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> if there was a school shooter inside a school, should the school be bombed? If there were multiple school shooters inside one school, and they were coördinating with other shooters across the country, that becomes a valid trade off. (In a classic solo shooter scenario, everyone you want to save is inside the building. There is no external context.) In the same way that a hijacked plane, post 9/11, is a valid target for being shot down.
- someotherperson 3y ago
  Oh, I thought they're used as human shields. How many school shooters would need to be in a Florida High School before you think it's worthwhile to bomb it? Just a rough number
kaba0 3y ago
The scales are so completely different that that analogy is just done in bad faith.
- someotherperson 3y ago
  Much as I asked the other commenter, how many school shooters would need to be in the school before we believe it's valid? Let's change the analogy: ISIS terrorists take over the MIT campus. Inside the university are 50 armed terrorists. Is it valid to now bomb the university? What if there are 100 terrorists? There is no issue with scale here. No matter how much it scales, you won't reach a point where there is an ethical position that argues for the mass murder of people that we actually view as people. It only becomes ethical when we dehumanize the people affected.
  - Vecr 3y ago
    Maybe about 3000 terrorists? Is this a Beslan like situation?
  - sharikous 3y ago
    So what do you think would happen if terrorists took over the MIT campus, students sympathized with them, rockets were launched from it, and the US police had no presence there and very sparse intelligence?
    - someotherperson 3y ago
      > students sympathized with them So we're back to 'all of them are guilty' The shame here is what you described is literally Hamas' reasoning for carrying out the October attacks. Dehumanization, hyper aggression, and hiding it all behind 'the opposition is inherently evil, guilty by association, so we are fundamentally justified'.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Yes, there a lot more civilians killed in Gaza every day than you could fit into a school. What Israel does is much, much worse.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> if there was a school shooter inside a school, should the school be bombed? If there were multiple school shooters inside one school, and they were coördinating with other shooters across the country, that becomes a valid trade off. (In a classic solo shooter scenario, everyone you want to save is inside the building. There is no external context.) In the same way that a hijacked plane, post 9/11, is a valid target for being shot down.

someotherperson 3y ago
Oh, I thought they're used as human shields. How many school shooters would need to be in a Florida High School before you think it's worthwhile to bomb it? Just a rough number

kaba0 3y ago

The scales are so completely different that that analogy is just done in bad faith.

someotherperson 3y ago
Much as I asked the other commenter, how many school shooters would need to be in the school before we believe it's valid? Let's change the analogy: ISIS terrorists take over the MIT campus. Inside the university are 50 armed terrorists. Is it valid to now bomb the university? What if there are 100 terrorists? There is no issue with scale here. No matter how much it scales, you won't reach a point where there is an ethical position that argues for the mass murder of people that we actually view as people. It only becomes ethical when we dehumanize the people affected.
- Vecr 3y ago
  Maybe about 3000 terrorists? Is this a Beslan like situation?
- sharikous 3y ago
  So what do you think would happen if terrorists took over the MIT campus, students sympathized with them, rockets were launched from it, and the US police had no presence there and very sparse intelligence?
  - someotherperson 3y ago
    > students sympathized with them So we're back to 'all of them are guilty' The shame here is what you described is literally Hamas' reasoning for carrying out the October attacks. Dehumanization, hyper aggression, and hiding it all behind 'the opposition is inherently evil, guilty by association, so we are fundamentally justified'.
hef19898 3y ago
Yes, there a lot more civilians killed in Gaza every day than you could fit into a school. What Israel does is much, much worse.