3 ms·

Akshully it’s you who need to read up on first thing about the history of the invasion of cities by the automobile. Complete, total regulatory capture of the go

by bedobi 3y ago

Akshully it’s you who need to read up on first thing about the history of the invasion of cities by the automobile. Complete, total regulatory capture of the government by the automobile and oil industry, purchase of transit only to rip it to shreds etc etc. The funny thing is, traffic in general and life for ardent motorists in particular would be better the better alternatives to driving are. Instead, they shoot themselves in the foot by shutting down anything other than adding more and more traffic, making things worse and worse for themselves.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
I know about the purchase of transit lines. Where did they get the money to do that? By selling cars, that's where. Who was buying the cars? People who wanted them, not just people who had no choice. (Because the money to buy the transit lines was there before the choice disappeared.) Why did people want cars instead of transit, or bicycles, or walking? The alternatives work great... until it's a blizzard or 10 below. Then people don't actually want to wait at a trolley stop or ride a bike. (Yes, I know, you can dress for it. They still don't want to.) So akkkkshully, people weren't the helpless sheep being run over by the invading automobiles that you claim they were. Autos are not an invasive species, overheated rhetoric notwithstanding. People brought those cars to the cities, and built the roads, and paid for them, and not just because the evil auto companies forced them to.
- burnished 3y ago
  Did early autos even work in inclement weather? I'm under the impression that cold weather fuels and oils are relatively modern and I wouldnt be surprised if pre-heating systems came years after the vehicles first gained traction.
  - devilbunny 3y ago
    Not many places - and really not many big places in the US - need engine block heaters. Cold weather doesn't need special gasoline, although diesel fuel does have to be formulated differently (modern winter gasolines are formulated to meet various states' emissions requirements, not because it gels in the cold). I'm from the South, so I've never had a car with a block heater, but I've driven in temps down to 0 F/-17 C without a problem. They had been that low persistently for about 4-5 days. Perhaps I did untold damage to the car by not having low-viscosity oil, but it worked well for the four years I drove it and the two after that when my sister did (until she wrecked it), and it was seven years old when it became mine. 13 years for a mid-eighties GM car was pretty good. Given that the auto industry in the US and Canada was basically founded around the Great Lakes, I can't imagine that they wanted to sell things that wouldn't work in the cold weather of that region.
tzs 3y ago
> Akshully it’s you who need to read up on first thing about the history of the invasion of cities by the automobile. Complete, total regulatory capture of the government by the automobile and oil industry, purchase of transit only to rip it to shreds etc etc. Actually, you've got the timeline wrong. It was the automobile becoming so common in cities that made the automobile industry powerful enough to later do those other things. What got cars common in cities was that they were safer than horses and didn't shit and piss all over the streets.

by bedobi 3y ago

AnimalMuppet 3y ago

I know about the purchase of transit lines. Where did they get the money to do that? By selling cars, that's where. Who was buying the cars? People who wanted them, not just people who had no choice. (Because the money to buy the transit lines was there before the choice disappeared.) Why did people want cars instead of transit, or bicycles, or walking? The alternatives work great... until it's a blizzard or 10 below. Then people don't actually want to wait at a trolley stop or ride a bike. (Yes, I know, you can dress for it. They still don't want to.) So akkkkshully, people weren't the helpless sheep being run over by the invading automobiles that you claim they were. Autos are not an invasive species, overheated rhetoric notwithstanding. People brought those cars to the cities, and built the roads, and paid for them, and not just because the evil auto companies forced them to.

burnished 3y ago
Did early autos even work in inclement weather? I'm under the impression that cold weather fuels and oils are relatively modern and I wouldnt be surprised if pre-heating systems came years after the vehicles first gained traction.
- devilbunny 3y ago
  Not many places - and really not many big places in the US - need engine block heaters. Cold weather doesn't need special gasoline, although diesel fuel does have to be formulated differently (modern winter gasolines are formulated to meet various states' emissions requirements, not because it gels in the cold). I'm from the South, so I've never had a car with a block heater, but I've driven in temps down to 0 F/-17 C without a problem. They had been that low persistently for about 4-5 days. Perhaps I did untold damage to the car by not having low-viscosity oil, but it worked well for the four years I drove it and the two after that when my sister did (until she wrecked it), and it was seven years old when it became mine. 13 years for a mid-eighties GM car was pretty good. Given that the auto industry in the US and Canada was basically founded around the Great Lakes, I can't imagine that they wanted to sell things that wouldn't work in the cold weather of that region.

tzs 3y ago

> Akshully it’s you who need to read up on first thing about the history of the invasion of cities by the automobile. Complete, total regulatory capture of the government by the automobile and oil industry, purchase of transit only to rip it to shreds etc etc. Actually, you've got the timeline wrong. It was the automobile becoming so common in cities that made the automobile industry powerful enough to later do those other things. What got cars common in cities was that they were safer than horses and didn't shit and piss all over the streets.