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> Cities are welcome to erect whatever barriers they like to private cars. This is inaccurate - for liability purposes, most road design in the US conforms to

> Cities are welcome to erect whatever barriers they like to private cars. This is inaccurate - for liability purposes, most road design in the US conforms to the MUTCD (and other design standards), which have very car-centric requirements. For example, the minimum lane width it allows is 11 feet (3.3m). If you design and install a 10 foot lane, you're not supported by that standard, and will likely get sued for damages if someone sideswipes someone, etc. The same applies for many other features that can improve pedestrian safety. It's one of the fundamental reasons north American built environment looks so much different (even compared with a car-centric design in other countries)

ghaff 3y ago
Yes, but cities can presumably limit parking, make it very expensive, perhaps implement congestion charges. They have lots of levers to keep cars out if they want to without not complying with design standards.
- SECProto 3y ago
  > cities can presumably limit parking, make it very expensive, perhaps implement congestion charges These are three very difficult to implement changes (due to complaints), and also very ineffective at increasing safety (fewer vehicles = more speeding = no improvement in accident rates). > have lots of levers to keep cars out It's not about keeping cars out, it's making them behave safely. You can put a 20mph limit at an elementary school, but if your lanes are limited to 11 foot width, you'll still have cars driving 40, you still have long crossing distances, you still have all these factors reducing safety. If your corner radius has to be designed for a transport truck turning at 15 mph, you'll have cars turning at 40, failing to yield at crosswalks, etc. > without not complying with design standards. It's not about "not complying with design standards" - it's about the standards being too car-focused and having unintended consequences for others.

ghaff 3y ago

Yes, but cities can presumably limit parking, make it very expensive, perhaps implement congestion charges. They have lots of levers to keep cars out if they want to without not complying with design standards.

SECProto 3y ago
> cities can presumably limit parking, make it very expensive, perhaps implement congestion charges These are three very difficult to implement changes (due to complaints), and also very ineffective at increasing safety (fewer vehicles = more speeding = no improvement in accident rates). > have lots of levers to keep cars out It's not about keeping cars out, it's making them behave safely. You can put a 20mph limit at an elementary school, but if your lanes are limited to 11 foot width, you'll still have cars driving 40, you still have long crossing distances, you still have all these factors reducing safety. If your corner radius has to be designed for a transport truck turning at 15 mph, you'll have cars turning at 40, failing to yield at crosswalks, etc. > without not complying with design standards. It's not about "not complying with design standards" - it's about the standards being too car-focused and having unintended consequences for others.