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How is there such a big disconnect between HN opinion on Oracle and business use? Is it maybe the least bad of all the bad options? Does it cover some edge cas

How is there such a big disconnect between HN opinion on Oracle and business use? Is it maybe the least bad of all the bad options? Does it cover some edge cases which the obvious FOSS solutions don’t?

zaphar 3y ago
I honestly don't know. I don't know how they stay in business since every developer I've ever met had a bordering on irrational hatred of them. The only people I've met who like them were all Oracle consultants of some sort and not what I would call developers. When I've been forced to use an Oracle database it was because the company had a contract with Oracle and didn't want to allow any other database to be used. The decision was always several levels above my paygrade. I no longer accept positions at the kind of place that will do business with Oracle. It tends to signal that leadership of that place has some serious problems and too much money to realize they have those problems.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  I never worked for Oracle or as an Oracle consultant, but used to develop on Oracle RDBMS. I liked it quite a lot and it was very powerful. But today, I'd use Postgres.
  - zaphar 3y ago
    In purely technical terms Oracle is fine, really good even. The company comes with massive legal and cost risks though.
- rstuart4133 3y ago
  > I don't know how they stay in business since every developer I've ever met had a bordering on irrational hatred of them. I'm sure you know the answer. Oracle doesn't sell to developers. They sell to the management of non-tech companies whose upper echelons are staffed by people with expertise whatever they do, which might be selling dresses or making plastic pipes. For what it's with SAP uses exactly the same technique. For something truly difficult to explain, try Google replacing Oracle with SAP. https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-migrates-from-oracle-financial-software-to-sap/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-migrates-from-oracle-fi... Years ago when I invoiced Google they asked me to enter the invoice into their portal. (Generally, transcribing a vendors invoice into your accounting systems is something you pay your own employees to do of course, but big companies know how to apply the screws.) I remember that web form. It proudly said is was created by a summer of code student. It was ugly, it was concise, it was straightforward, and it just worked first go. Then Google moved to SAP, and used SAP's Aruba service to do the same thing. Aruba is layer upon layer of poor design, outages and bugs. Now, if a Google employee sends you an purchase they often offer to "get it into the system" for you. The reason is Aruba is almost unusable, so it they need whatever service is being offered badly enough they shepherd it through. I can only guess, but my explanation is assume SAP sold the system to Google's accounting department. Somehow, SAP's sales found a way to bypass the ocean of expertise inside one of the greatest software engineering companies on the planet and sell the system to a pocket of people who had no idea about what they were buying. Colour me impressed with SAP sales.
gadflyinyoureye 3y ago
Many large companies want a Batphone to call someone for support. They think that the vendor will magically just make things work. Normally that’s not the case. They might get it to work faster than your people, but probably not much quicker. FOSS often has a Batphone, but few people pay for it. As a result management doesn’t want their Ops to be the only possible team to correct things.
- zaphar 3y ago
  You can get a Batphone without doing business with Oracle. Microsoft SQL Server will give you a Batphone and would still be better than doing business with Oracle.
  - seniorThrowaway 3y ago
    I don't know if it is still the case but MS SQL was very deficient tech wise against Oracle DB, and never really a contender for a large OLTP DB. To the point that for some applications, it simply would not work due to excessive locking.
    - zaphar 3y ago
      I've used MS SQL recently and it holds up more than fine if you tune it properly. Oracle also needs tuning properly so that's not big deal.
- seniorThrowaway 3y ago
  support contracts are mitigations to management career problems, not to technology problems. Managers always want that throat to choke to deflect blame or buy time
- JoshuaRogers 3y ago
  Absolutely. I’m surprised that the belief in much of the comments is that the technical input of developers (like myself) affects whether Oracle gets consideration. Oracle gets consideration because teams want to have a lifeline if something goes wrong or (worst case) someone else to pin the blame on when it does. And this happens because some businesses are actually so big that that level of comfort doesn’t even dent the budget. Oracle actually has some nice parts and some rough edges (a statement that applies equally to PG and SQL Server too, for instance), but it comes with a king-sized security blanket.
vetinari 3y ago
Tech people are those, who have to fix everything once SHTF. Business people are those, who get to go to nice trips and dinners for their "right" decision. Any other questions?
- peteradio 3y ago
  Greasy palms have no qualms!
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

zaphar 3y ago

I honestly don't know. I don't know how they stay in business since every developer I've ever met had a bordering on irrational hatred of them. The only people I've met who like them were all Oracle consultants of some sort and not what I would call developers. When I've been forced to use an Oracle database it was because the company had a contract with Oracle and didn't want to allow any other database to be used. The decision was always several levels above my paygrade. I no longer accept positions at the kind of place that will do business with Oracle. It tends to signal that leadership of that place has some serious problems and too much money to realize they have those problems.

SoftTalker 3y ago
I never worked for Oracle or as an Oracle consultant, but used to develop on Oracle RDBMS. I liked it quite a lot and it was very powerful. But today, I'd use Postgres.
- zaphar 3y ago
  In purely technical terms Oracle is fine, really good even. The company comes with massive legal and cost risks though.
rstuart4133 3y ago
> I don't know how they stay in business since every developer I've ever met had a bordering on irrational hatred of them. I'm sure you know the answer. Oracle doesn't sell to developers. They sell to the management of non-tech companies whose upper echelons are staffed by people with expertise whatever they do, which might be selling dresses or making plastic pipes. For what it's with SAP uses exactly the same technique. For something truly difficult to explain, try Google replacing Oracle with SAP. https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-migrates-from-oracle-financial-software-to-sap/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-migrates-from-oracle-fi... Years ago when I invoiced Google they asked me to enter the invoice into their portal. (Generally, transcribing a vendors invoice into your accounting systems is something you pay your own employees to do of course, but big companies know how to apply the screws.) I remember that web form. It proudly said is was created by a summer of code student. It was ugly, it was concise, it was straightforward, and it just worked first go. Then Google moved to SAP, and used SAP's Aruba service to do the same thing. Aruba is layer upon layer of poor design, outages and bugs. Now, if a Google employee sends you an purchase they often offer to "get it into the system" for you. The reason is Aruba is almost unusable, so it they need whatever service is being offered badly enough they shepherd it through. I can only guess, but my explanation is assume SAP sold the system to Google's accounting department. Somehow, SAP's sales found a way to bypass the ocean of expertise inside one of the greatest software engineering companies on the planet and sell the system to a pocket of people who had no idea about what they were buying. Colour me impressed with SAP sales.

gadflyinyoureye 3y ago

Many large companies want a Batphone to call someone for support. They think that the vendor will magically just make things work. Normally that’s not the case. They might get it to work faster than your people, but probably not much quicker. FOSS often has a Batphone, but few people pay for it. As a result management doesn’t want their Ops to be the only possible team to correct things.

zaphar 3y ago
You can get a Batphone without doing business with Oracle. Microsoft SQL Server will give you a Batphone and would still be better than doing business with Oracle.
- seniorThrowaway 3y ago
  I don't know if it is still the case but MS SQL was very deficient tech wise against Oracle DB, and never really a contender for a large OLTP DB. To the point that for some applications, it simply would not work due to excessive locking.
  - zaphar 3y ago
    I've used MS SQL recently and it holds up more than fine if you tune it properly. Oracle also needs tuning properly so that's not big deal.
seniorThrowaway 3y ago
support contracts are mitigations to management career problems, not to technology problems. Managers always want that throat to choke to deflect blame or buy time
JoshuaRogers 3y ago
Absolutely. I’m surprised that the belief in much of the comments is that the technical input of developers (like myself) affects whether Oracle gets consideration. Oracle gets consideration because teams want to have a lifeline if something goes wrong or (worst case) someone else to pin the blame on when it does. And this happens because some businesses are actually so big that that level of comfort doesn’t even dent the budget. Oracle actually has some nice parts and some rough edges (a statement that applies equally to PG and SQL Server too, for instance), but it comes with a king-sized security blanket.

vetinari 3y ago

Tech people are those, who have to fix everything once SHTF. Business people are those, who get to go to nice trips and dinners for their "right" decision. Any other questions?

peteradio 3y ago
Greasy palms have no qualms!

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]