6 ms·

Even setting aside the dubious morality of Apple's rules on iOS, I feel like I'm going insane watching Apple be maximally aggressive. The EU loves regulating! T

by benced 3y ago

Even setting aside the dubious morality of Apple's rules on iOS, I feel like I'm going insane watching Apple be maximally aggressive. The EU loves regulating! There's nothing they love more! It seems supremely unwise to give them additional excuses to do something they clearly want to do anyways.

patrickmcnamara 3y ago
Regulatory accelerationism. I never thought it would come from Apple.
mattbrewsbytes 3y ago
> Apple be maximally aggressive From an observation standpoint seeing how Microsoft behaved in the 90's and onward, they (Apple) are behaving very similarly - almost exactly with what MS did for Windows back then. I have a growing distaste for Apple corporate/mgmt each day even though I am surrounded by their devices.
- __loam 3y ago
  Apple has been dragged kicking and screaming into more consumer friendly positions since the iPhone was released. It took years for them to simply switch to a more open charging port standard.
  - swores 3y ago
    Not just years, it took a law requiring it to happen.
  - chgs 3y ago
    Before the iPhone and maybe blackberry the majority of phones used random proprietary charger. The iPhone was the first mass market consumer phone to come with a cable that connected to a standard usb charger.
    - jwells89 3y ago
      > The iPhone was the first mass market consumer phone to come with a cable that connected to a standard usb charger. And had a device end connector that didn’t change every other model. Some phones used standard connectors for that but plenty didn’t, and manufacturers would sometimes change the connector without rhyme or reason.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - roneythomas6 3y ago
      My Sony Xperia phone had a cable that connected to standard usb charger, this was before the first iPhone. From my memory Moto Razr 2 used micro usb b cable to standard usb. There where plenty of phones before iPhone that had charging cable that connected to standard usb charger.
    - Muromec 3y ago
      I’m pretty sure my motorolas had a usb charger on device side before iPhone was a thing .
  - sircastor 3y ago
    While I think they should've switched earlier, it's often forgotten how angry people got when Apple switched from the 30 pin connector to Lightning. There were piles and piles of devices that used the 30 pin connector - it had been on every iPod, iPad and iPhone for nearly a decade. Entire hotel chains had iPod Docks in every room. Switching cost isn't limited to just goes in the device. It doesn't surprise me that Apple was hesitant to switch the port again.
    - InsomniacL 3y ago
      Transfer speeds by year 2001 USB: 480Mb/s 2012 Lightening 480Mb/s 2023 USB 80,000 Mb/s 2023 Lightening 480 Mb/s Apple wasn't hesitant, they knew it was an inevitable switch so never invested in to Lightening. They were quite happy knowing once you bought Apple, you kept Apple or you lost all your accessories. They're still playing the same game now. My Airpods work grate on iPhone, but they only connect to some non-apple devices over bluetooth (not PS5), and when they do connect, if the mic is on the audio is awful.
- BiteCode_dev 3y ago
  And like MS they will just pay a few billions in PR and Foss to make a come back in 10 years and all will be forgiven. They will get away with this, we let them. They have no incentive to be better.
  - Muromec 3y ago
    Microsoft already notified EC that they stop their browser shenanigans and will ship windows without their browser pre-installed to save on endless lawyering game they can’t win.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> watching Apple be maximally aggressive Sweeney allegedly tweeted that he would breach his contract with Apple. Apple reached out and asked if he was being hysterical for public display. He didn’t clarify. At that point, Epic credibly threatened breach of contract. This is a commercial dispute between multi-billion dollar companies, both of whom charge outrageous platform fees, both of whom seem to enjoy being dramatic, and both of whom are being maximally aggressive. It’s fair to remain emotionally uninvolved.
- minimaxir 3y ago
  > At that point, Epic credibly threatened breach of contract. A threat of a breach of contract is not a breach of contract, which will be a sticking point if the EU gets involved again.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > threat of a breach of contract is not a breach of contract I don’t know EU law. But anticipatory breach is enough to trigger damages under American law, and “is an excuse for non-performance by the non-breaching party” [1]. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/anticipatory_breach https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/anticipatory_breach
    - izacus 3y ago
      There's nothing about some random contracts I can see in DMA. DMA however does say that the gatekeeper (Apple) isn't allow to block or retaliate against competitors. Or users for that matter.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > nothing about some random contracts I can see in DMA There are laws other than the DMA? (Anticipatory breach is incorporated into EU law through the UN CISG [1].) [1] https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/16247_2020_13 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/16247_2020_13
izacus 3y ago
Having worked for many bosses, never ever never undersestimate the power of ego of an executive. It's only second to the ego of a lawyer. Many of them will tank their company and their client if they get their ego bruised and feel publicly humiliated. Those are hyper competitive people which see live as zero sum game and are trained in life to never, ever, lose a challenge or competition for domination. ESPECIALLY in public. The myth of a rational businessman is just that - a myth. Being publicly regulated is exactly that scenario for Apple. There's execs in that very company that are frothing at their mouth in irrational anger ready to throw their weight around and WIN. Stomp on the opponent. SPLAT the unimportant fly that DARED challenge them. (I'm exaggerating... but not by much. This seems more of an emotional than thoughtful response Apple is doing here.)
- benced 3y ago
  It's hard to avoid any conclusion but this one.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  What if, and hear me out, execs could go to jail instead of just their company paying fines as if they're parking tickets? Would they still be as cocky?
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > execs could go to jail instead of just their company paying fines as if they're parking tickets? You want to send an executive to jail for cancelling a contract? I’d be curious for a jurisdiction to try this. In my opinion, I wouldn’t want to do business in a place where commercial disputes can be twisted by a political insider into jail time.
    - izacus 3y ago
      Do you also not drive a car in a place where your driving can be twisted into jail time when you hurt people? Why does the concept of personal responsibility for decisions insult you so deeply?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by benced 3y ago

patrickmcnamara 3y ago

Regulatory accelerationism. I never thought it would come from Apple.

mattbrewsbytes 3y ago

> Apple be maximally aggressive From an observation standpoint seeing how Microsoft behaved in the 90's and onward, they (Apple) are behaving very similarly - almost exactly with what MS did for Windows back then. I have a growing distaste for Apple corporate/mgmt each day even though I am surrounded by their devices.

__loam 3y ago
Apple has been dragged kicking and screaming into more consumer friendly positions since the iPhone was released. It took years for them to simply switch to a more open charging port standard.
- swores 3y ago
  Not just years, it took a law requiring it to happen.
- chgs 3y ago
  Before the iPhone and maybe blackberry the majority of phones used random proprietary charger. The iPhone was the first mass market consumer phone to come with a cable that connected to a standard usb charger.
  - jwells89 3y ago
    > The iPhone was the first mass market consumer phone to come with a cable that connected to a standard usb charger. And had a device end connector that didn’t change every other model. Some phones used standard connectors for that but plenty didn’t, and manufacturers would sometimes change the connector without rhyme or reason.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - roneythomas6 3y ago
    My Sony Xperia phone had a cable that connected to standard usb charger, this was before the first iPhone. From my memory Moto Razr 2 used micro usb b cable to standard usb. There where plenty of phones before iPhone that had charging cable that connected to standard usb charger.
  - Muromec 3y ago
    I’m pretty sure my motorolas had a usb charger on device side before iPhone was a thing .
- sircastor 3y ago
  While I think they should've switched earlier, it's often forgotten how angry people got when Apple switched from the 30 pin connector to Lightning. There were piles and piles of devices that used the 30 pin connector - it had been on every iPod, iPad and iPhone for nearly a decade. Entire hotel chains had iPod Docks in every room. Switching cost isn't limited to just goes in the device. It doesn't surprise me that Apple was hesitant to switch the port again.
  - InsomniacL 3y ago
    Transfer speeds by year 2001 USB: 480Mb/s 2012 Lightening 480Mb/s 2023 USB 80,000 Mb/s 2023 Lightening 480 Mb/s Apple wasn't hesitant, they knew it was an inevitable switch so never invested in to Lightening. They were quite happy knowing once you bought Apple, you kept Apple or you lost all your accessories. They're still playing the same game now. My Airpods work grate on iPhone, but they only connect to some non-apple devices over bluetooth (not PS5), and when they do connect, if the mic is on the audio is awful.
BiteCode_dev 3y ago
And like MS they will just pay a few billions in PR and Foss to make a come back in 10 years and all will be forgiven. They will get away with this, we let them. They have no incentive to be better.
- Muromec 3y ago
  Microsoft already notified EC that they stop their browser shenanigans and will ship windows without their browser pre-installed to save on endless lawyering game they can’t win.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> watching Apple be maximally aggressive Sweeney allegedly tweeted that he would breach his contract with Apple. Apple reached out and asked if he was being hysterical for public display. He didn’t clarify. At that point, Epic credibly threatened breach of contract. This is a commercial dispute between multi-billion dollar companies, both of whom charge outrageous platform fees, both of whom seem to enjoy being dramatic, and both of whom are being maximally aggressive. It’s fair to remain emotionally uninvolved.

minimaxir 3y ago
> At that point, Epic credibly threatened breach of contract. A threat of a breach of contract is not a breach of contract, which will be a sticking point if the EU gets involved again.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > threat of a breach of contract is not a breach of contract I don’t know EU law. But anticipatory breach is enough to trigger damages under American law, and “is an excuse for non-performance by the non-breaching party” [1]. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/anticipatory_breach https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/anticipatory_breach
  - izacus 3y ago
    There's nothing about some random contracts I can see in DMA. DMA however does say that the gatekeeper (Apple) isn't allow to block or retaliate against competitors. Or users for that matter.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > nothing about some random contracts I can see in DMA There are laws other than the DMA? (Anticipatory breach is incorporated into EU law through the UN CISG [1].) [1] https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/16247_2020_13 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/16247_2020_13

izacus 3y ago

Having worked for many bosses, never ever never undersestimate the power of ego of an executive. It's only second to the ego of a lawyer. Many of them will tank their company and their client if they get their ego bruised and feel publicly humiliated. Those are hyper competitive people which see live as zero sum game and are trained in life to never, ever, lose a challenge or competition for domination. ESPECIALLY in public. The myth of a rational businessman is just that - a myth. Being publicly regulated is exactly that scenario for Apple. There's execs in that very company that are frothing at their mouth in irrational anger ready to throw their weight around and WIN. Stomp on the opponent. SPLAT the unimportant fly that DARED challenge them. (I'm exaggerating... but not by much. This seems more of an emotional than thoughtful response Apple is doing here.)

benced 3y ago
It's hard to avoid any conclusion but this one.
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
What if, and hear me out, execs could go to jail instead of just their company paying fines as if they're parking tickets? Would they still be as cocky?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > execs could go to jail instead of just their company paying fines as if they're parking tickets? You want to send an executive to jail for cancelling a contract? I’d be curious for a jurisdiction to try this. In my opinion, I wouldn’t want to do business in a place where commercial disputes can be twisted by a political insider into jail time.
  - izacus 3y ago
    Do you also not drive a car in a place where your driving can be twisted into jail time when you hurt people? Why does the concept of personal responsibility for decisions insult you so deeply?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]