4 ms·

Worldcoin is one of the dumbest "this is technically possible so why not" ideas to be floated in the last few years, standing out even in the field of stupid cr

Worldcoin is one of the dumbest "this is technically possible so why not" ideas to be floated in the last few years, standing out even in the field of stupid cryptocurrency adjacent endeavors. I still haven't really figured out why they want to scan eyeballs. Biometrics might be part of a secure solution to account access but I would hate to lose access to my account because I got in a accident and lost an eye. I do not believe the conspiracy theories about gathering biometric data, if only because what would be the point? But the stated reasons are so silly that it is easy to believe in an ulterior motive.

diggan 3y ago
I think the point is "Proof of Personhood/Humanity/Individual". There is a huge problem in the cryptocurrency space where you don't know if 10 accounts belong to 10 individuals, or one individual. So a bunch of projects are trying to figure out a solution to this, to prevent sybil attacks. Gitcoin Passport is one of those solutions, where you can connect various accounts to a "Passport", which you can then hand over to services who can see you have a certain score, but not exactly what that Passport is connected to, so you still preserve your privacy. I think Worldcoin is another attempt at this, with the idea that the iris scans they do are unique in the world. So basically like a normal cryptocurrency wallet, except these ones also have a ID/hash or something that indicates their "iris value" or something. Then Worldcoin can guarantee/prove that one individual only has one wallet. At least that's my understand of it, happy to be corrected. (Guess I should add that I personally don't use or support Worldcoin at all, but I have read about it a couple of times at this point)
- AndrewStephens 3y ago
  That is my superficial understanding as well but if we are both correct, what is the point? One of the only (dubious) advantages of crypto is that nothing ties a wallet to a person, or a wallet to another wallet unless they interact. How is WorldCoin better than just having a bank account that you have to go into a bank in person to set up?
  - diggan 3y ago
    > That is my superficial understanding as well but if we are both correct, what is the point? The point is that application developers can limit access to their $whatever by real humans, and force uniqueness. > One of the only (dubious) advantages of crypto is that nothing ties a wallet to a person, or a wallet to another wallet unless they interact. How is WorldCoin better than just having a bank account that you have to go into a bank in person to set up? This seems to be generally about cryptocurrencies at large, doesn't seem specific to Worldcoin as far as I understand. I think the assumption is that "Someone wants to use a cryptocurrency and someone built a platform, now the builder wants to make sure the user is unique", and without that, then there isn't really anything to discuss.
  - gs17 3y ago
    > How is WorldCoin better than just having a bank account that you have to go into a bank in person to set up? I think the idea is both about being able to use it for ID (specifically, ID that you are a unique human being), while also making it accessible in places where there's large "unbanked" populations. If it was BankAccountCoin, there would be over a billion people left out. I'm not a fan of it, and I don't think it will ever work as well at this as it will at making Sam a bit more cash, but the concept isn't entirely flawed.
  - tim333 3y ago
    It's anonymous. You don't have to give a name or address or anything.
- shkkmo 3y ago
  > Then Worldcoin can guarantee/prove that one individual only has one wallet. Which only works if you have somehow created a completely secure method proving the provenance of iris scan data. Given the intent is to lock a bunch of money behind this, I highly doubt that this is remotely possible. If worldcoin has real value, someone will find a way to obtain and replay iris scans to make money. Biometrics is simply not a good security mechanism.
FloorEgg 3y ago
If you wanted to create a user authentication system that could reliably differentiate between humans and AI, how would you do it? Not trying to defend worldcoin. It's just that this problem of differentiating people and AI online matters a lot to me and I haven't thought of a reliable way yet, even theoretically.
- marviel 3y ago
  this is the real technical issue that will define the decade
- ourmandave 3y ago
  ...differentiate between humans and AI, how would you do it? Make everybody play Where's Waldo? with a grid of 9 blurry pics. Except sometimes Waldo is a bus, bridge, or traffic light.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > If you wanted to create a user authentication system that could reliably differentiate between humans and AI, how would you do it? I don't think that there is a way to do this without an unacceptable level of sacrifice in terms of privacy/security. I hope my opinion is very wrong, but so far I haven't seen any sign that it is.
  - FloorEgg 3y ago
    For the record, I meant the same thing: (while maintaining privacy and security, eg while supporting anonymity). Blockchain attestations seem interesting but I'm not yet convinced by them. I'm glad there are people working on this problem though.
- mminer237 3y ago
  You can come close with requiring a phone number. If you need to know someone is a human with one account, you have to make them provide an ID. Usually you don't really need to do that.
  - 3y ago
justinclift 3y ago
> I still haven't really figured out why they want to scan eyeballs. If you want to generate fake humans, having a shit load of real raw biometric data at hand is probably going to be useful.
tim333 3y ago
They basically just give you a crypto wallet with some coins in. The eye scan is only done at the start to stop people picking up multiple wallets. After you have it access is not done by eye ball, it's done using a private key like any other crypto wallet.
namaria 3y ago
There's a race for corporations to own identity management. If the government has to ask a private entity to confirm who people are, we will be effectively living in under that private entity's discretion. Offended the wrong person? Stood in the way of their plans? Black box back room deals get you a criminal record with arrest warrant. It doesn't even matter then if they are tied to your real identity. The government asks the private identity provider who you are at say an airport border control and private entity says: oh they're this fugitive, arrest on sight. Then what?

diggan 3y ago

I think the point is "Proof of Personhood/Humanity/Individual". There is a huge problem in the cryptocurrency space where you don't know if 10 accounts belong to 10 individuals, or one individual. So a bunch of projects are trying to figure out a solution to this, to prevent sybil attacks. Gitcoin Passport is one of those solutions, where you can connect various accounts to a "Passport", which you can then hand over to services who can see you have a certain score, but not exactly what that Passport is connected to, so you still preserve your privacy. I think Worldcoin is another attempt at this, with the idea that the iris scans they do are unique in the world. So basically like a normal cryptocurrency wallet, except these ones also have a ID/hash or something that indicates their "iris value" or something. Then Worldcoin can guarantee/prove that one individual only has one wallet. At least that's my understand of it, happy to be corrected. (Guess I should add that I personally don't use or support Worldcoin at all, but I have read about it a couple of times at this point)

AndrewStephens 3y ago
That is my superficial understanding as well but if we are both correct, what is the point? One of the only (dubious) advantages of crypto is that nothing ties a wallet to a person, or a wallet to another wallet unless they interact. How is WorldCoin better than just having a bank account that you have to go into a bank in person to set up?
- diggan 3y ago
  > That is my superficial understanding as well but if we are both correct, what is the point? The point is that application developers can limit access to their $whatever by real humans, and force uniqueness. > One of the only (dubious) advantages of crypto is that nothing ties a wallet to a person, or a wallet to another wallet unless they interact. How is WorldCoin better than just having a bank account that you have to go into a bank in person to set up? This seems to be generally about cryptocurrencies at large, doesn't seem specific to Worldcoin as far as I understand. I think the assumption is that "Someone wants to use a cryptocurrency and someone built a platform, now the builder wants to make sure the user is unique", and without that, then there isn't really anything to discuss.
- gs17 3y ago
  > How is WorldCoin better than just having a bank account that you have to go into a bank in person to set up? I think the idea is both about being able to use it for ID (specifically, ID that you are a unique human being), while also making it accessible in places where there's large "unbanked" populations. If it was BankAccountCoin, there would be over a billion people left out. I'm not a fan of it, and I don't think it will ever work as well at this as it will at making Sam a bit more cash, but the concept isn't entirely flawed.
- tim333 3y ago
  It's anonymous. You don't have to give a name or address or anything.
shkkmo 3y ago
> Then Worldcoin can guarantee/prove that one individual only has one wallet. Which only works if you have somehow created a completely secure method proving the provenance of iris scan data. Given the intent is to lock a bunch of money behind this, I highly doubt that this is remotely possible. If worldcoin has real value, someone will find a way to obtain and replay iris scans to make money. Biometrics is simply not a good security mechanism.

FloorEgg 3y ago

If you wanted to create a user authentication system that could reliably differentiate between humans and AI, how would you do it? Not trying to defend worldcoin. It's just that this problem of differentiating people and AI online matters a lot to me and I haven't thought of a reliable way yet, even theoretically.

marviel 3y ago
this is the real technical issue that will define the decade
ourmandave 3y ago
...differentiate between humans and AI, how would you do it? Make everybody play Where's Waldo? with a grid of 9 blurry pics. Except sometimes Waldo is a bus, bridge, or traffic light.
JohnFen 3y ago
> If you wanted to create a user authentication system that could reliably differentiate between humans and AI, how would you do it? I don't think that there is a way to do this without an unacceptable level of sacrifice in terms of privacy/security. I hope my opinion is very wrong, but so far I haven't seen any sign that it is.
- FloorEgg 3y ago
  For the record, I meant the same thing: (while maintaining privacy and security, eg while supporting anonymity). Blockchain attestations seem interesting but I'm not yet convinced by them. I'm glad there are people working on this problem though.
mminer237 3y ago
You can come close with requiring a phone number. If you need to know someone is a human with one account, you have to make them provide an ID. Usually you don't really need to do that.
- 3y ago

justinclift 3y ago

> I still haven't really figured out why they want to scan eyeballs. If you want to generate fake humans, having a shit load of real raw biometric data at hand is probably going to be useful.

tim333 3y ago

They basically just give you a crypto wallet with some coins in. The eye scan is only done at the start to stop people picking up multiple wallets. After you have it access is not done by eye ball, it's done using a private key like any other crypto wallet.

namaria 3y ago

There's a race for corporations to own identity management. If the government has to ask a private entity to confirm who people are, we will be effectively living in under that private entity's discretion. Offended the wrong person? Stood in the way of their plans? Black box back room deals get you a criminal record with arrest warrant. It doesn't even matter then if they are tied to your real identity. The government asks the private identity provider who you are at say an airport border control and private entity says: oh they're this fugitive, arrest on sight. Then what?