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> No one would rationally expect Epic to have a developer account with Apple. Really? I would 100% expect most any large company selling anything into the comp

> No one would rationally expect Epic to have a developer account with Apple. Really? I would 100% expect most any large company selling anything into the computing or computing-adjacent space to have an Apple dev account and a Play Store account. My supermarket chain has an Apple dev account. Target has an Apple dev account. (Both presumably have Play Store accounts as well.) If those brick-and-mortar companies can manage to reach their customers that way, it was more surprising to me that Epic didn't have one previously than the converse.

sidewndr46 3y ago
Is Target actively hostile to the platform provider they have dev accounts with?
nixgeek 3y ago
I doubt your supermarket chain has done things which rise to Phil Schiller responding to Epic with — > We welcome all developers to the Developer Program so long as they follow the rules. Those rules, including the DPLA and the App Store Review Guidelines, are intended to protect the integrity of the ecosystem, developers large and small, and - most importantly-users. Accordingly, developers who are unable or unwilling to keep their promises can't continue to participate in the Developer Program. > In the past, Epic has entered into agreements with Apple and then broken them. For example, you testified that Epic Games, Inc. entered into the Developer Program with full understanding of its terms, and then chose to intentionally breach the agreement with Apple. You also testified that Epic deliberately violated Apple's rules, to make a point and for financial gain. More recently, you have described our DMA compliance plan as "hot garbage," a "horror show," and a "devious new instance of Malicious Compliance." And you have complained about what you called "Junk Fees" and "Apple taxes." > Your colorful criticism of our DMA compliance plan, coupled with Epic's past practice of intentionally violating contractual provisions with which it disagrees, strongly suggest that Epic Sweden does not intend to follow the rules. Another intentional breach could threaten the integrity of the iOS platform, as well as the security and privacy of users. > You have stated that allowing enrollment of Epic Games Sweden in the Developer Program is "a good faith move by Apple." We invite you to provide us with written assurance that you are also acting in good faith, and that Epic Games Sweden will, despite your public actions and rhetoric, honor all of its commitments. In plain, unqualified terms, please tell us why we should trust Epic this time.
- andersa 3y ago
  It is not relevant whether Apple trusts Epic - they are not legally allowed to block them while running a core platform service.
- WWLink 3y ago
  The sooner this "ecosystem" crap dies, the better. The sooner not needing Apple dev tools or an Apple developer account to make software for an Apple device, the better. The sooner I can use my Apple Watch with an Android phone, the better. The sooner Apple stops (basically) requiring me to use icloud instead of literally any other better, cheaper, higher performance cloud service for my photos, videos, settings, and etc without nagging me 24/7 and trying to default to icloud storage, the better. As a long time user and buyer of Apple products, I'd really rather they have robust security, stable APIs, good UI design standards (once again), and create/support open standards. All of this "ecosystem" "It's secure if you use it our way and only our way" and "it just works (most of the time)" BS is annoying me. It's annoying, because over the last 20 years I've watched their products become weirder and more gimped and full of dark patterns in an attempt to force you to buy their services and/or lock you into buying nothing but Apple products. And don't even get me started about the thriving group of Apple-Stans that play the "YOU DON'T LIKE IT?! THEN LEAVE! I LOVE IT! ITS PERFECT AND YOU SHOULD TOO!" game lol. TBH they're even more vicious than tesla/spacex-stans....
  - heresaPizza 3y ago
    They went from making premium products to buggy objects filled with ads
    - WWLink 3y ago
      I think the hardware still feels pretty fancy. I recently bought a macbook air and iphone 13 and they feel really nice.. the imacs I got my brothers have been excellent as well.... But buggy software filled with ads. Yes. That much I agree with! I have an android phone (galaxy fold 4) that I've been using as a secondary for like 14 months now. When my iPhone XS finally developed a swelling battery, I decided to retire it and switch the GF4 to my primary phone. I've been bouncing between Android and iOS for many years, but this time I felt a little bit heartbroken..... One of the reasons I like using iPhones is you can send & receive sms/imessage on a Mac. But if you use the google messages app on an android phone, you can use a webapp on any computer (any OS) that IMHO works better (kind of). For one, it works on anything! For another: MS Windows' link-to-phone thing is pretty sweet. For another: I like the android/samsung oneUI way of handling phone calls. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's way less obnoxious. Especially because the speakerphone button ACTUALLY JUST WORKS! At some point iOS decided to make that button pop up a menu. Caller ID also works... and the scam phonecall blacklist thing works WAAAAY better on Android. I still don't like any other OS as much as I like MacOS, but I miss the days of 10.4/10.5/10.6... it feels like the OS has gotten heavily enshittified since then. Honestly it feels more like Windows XP lol. I blame it all on Notification Center. Notification Center is a badly programmed turd. It steals focus, the hotkeys don't work right and aren't obvious, the notifications are like constant nags and you generally have to opt out of them instead of opting into them.... I just fucking hate it.

sidewndr46 3y ago

Is Target actively hostile to the platform provider they have dev accounts with?

nixgeek 3y ago

I doubt your supermarket chain has done things which rise to Phil Schiller responding to Epic with — > We welcome all developers to the Developer Program so long as they follow the rules. Those rules, including the DPLA and the App Store Review Guidelines, are intended to protect the integrity of the ecosystem, developers large and small, and - most importantly-users. Accordingly, developers who are unable or unwilling to keep their promises can't continue to participate in the Developer Program. > In the past, Epic has entered into agreements with Apple and then broken them. For example, you testified that Epic Games, Inc. entered into the Developer Program with full understanding of its terms, and then chose to intentionally breach the agreement with Apple. You also testified that Epic deliberately violated Apple's rules, to make a point and for financial gain. More recently, you have described our DMA compliance plan as "hot garbage," a "horror show," and a "devious new instance of Malicious Compliance." And you have complained about what you called "Junk Fees" and "Apple taxes." > Your colorful criticism of our DMA compliance plan, coupled with Epic's past practice of intentionally violating contractual provisions with which it disagrees, strongly suggest that Epic Sweden does not intend to follow the rules. Another intentional breach could threaten the integrity of the iOS platform, as well as the security and privacy of users. > You have stated that allowing enrollment of Epic Games Sweden in the Developer Program is "a good faith move by Apple." We invite you to provide us with written assurance that you are also acting in good faith, and that Epic Games Sweden will, despite your public actions and rhetoric, honor all of its commitments. In plain, unqualified terms, please tell us why we should trust Epic this time.

andersa 3y ago
It is not relevant whether Apple trusts Epic - they are not legally allowed to block them while running a core platform service.
WWLink 3y ago
The sooner this "ecosystem" crap dies, the better. The sooner not needing Apple dev tools or an Apple developer account to make software for an Apple device, the better. The sooner I can use my Apple Watch with an Android phone, the better. The sooner Apple stops (basically) requiring me to use icloud instead of literally any other better, cheaper, higher performance cloud service for my photos, videos, settings, and etc without nagging me 24/7 and trying to default to icloud storage, the better. As a long time user and buyer of Apple products, I'd really rather they have robust security, stable APIs, good UI design standards (once again), and create/support open standards. All of this "ecosystem" "It's secure if you use it our way and only our way" and "it just works (most of the time)" BS is annoying me. It's annoying, because over the last 20 years I've watched their products become weirder and more gimped and full of dark patterns in an attempt to force you to buy their services and/or lock you into buying nothing but Apple products. And don't even get me started about the thriving group of Apple-Stans that play the "YOU DON'T LIKE IT?! THEN LEAVE! I LOVE IT! ITS PERFECT AND YOU SHOULD TOO!" game lol. TBH they're even more vicious than tesla/spacex-stans....
- heresaPizza 3y ago
  They went from making premium products to buggy objects filled with ads
  - WWLink 3y ago
    I think the hardware still feels pretty fancy. I recently bought a macbook air and iphone 13 and they feel really nice.. the imacs I got my brothers have been excellent as well.... But buggy software filled with ads. Yes. That much I agree with! I have an android phone (galaxy fold 4) that I've been using as a secondary for like 14 months now. When my iPhone XS finally developed a swelling battery, I decided to retire it and switch the GF4 to my primary phone. I've been bouncing between Android and iOS for many years, but this time I felt a little bit heartbroken..... One of the reasons I like using iPhones is you can send & receive sms/imessage on a Mac. But if you use the google messages app on an android phone, you can use a webapp on any computer (any OS) that IMHO works better (kind of). For one, it works on anything! For another: MS Windows' link-to-phone thing is pretty sweet. For another: I like the android/samsung oneUI way of handling phone calls. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's way less obnoxious. Especially because the speakerphone button ACTUALLY JUST WORKS! At some point iOS decided to make that button pop up a menu. Caller ID also works... and the scam phonecall blacklist thing works WAAAAY better on Android. I still don't like any other OS as much as I like MacOS, but I miss the days of 10.4/10.5/10.6... it feels like the OS has gotten heavily enshittified since then. Honestly it feels more like Windows XP lol. I blame it all on Notification Center. Notification Center is a badly programmed turd. It steals focus, the hotkeys don't work right and aren't obvious, the notifications are like constant nags and you generally have to opt out of them instead of opting into them.... I just fucking hate it.