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You have that issue without cryptocurrencies as well, you'd just be relying on the kindness of users rather than crypto incentives. You always need a way to ho

You have that issue without cryptocurrencies as well, you'd just be relying on the kindness of users rather than crypto incentives. You always need a way to hold nodes accountable in a system like this, or it'll be rife with manipulation — because there's already a strong, innate incentive to manipulate results. Today, we call that industry "SEO".

rakoo 3y ago
What you don't understand is that "I don't trust others" is not a terminal statee I'd rather build trust again, create human connections, or rather, put them in front because there are always connections; nothing works if you trust noone. Building a societal system where you know you can rely on your peers, you build together, is a more joyful, more resilient, more ecological and also more realistic way of building a thriving society than distrust-by-default that cryptocurrencies live for.
- idiotsecant 3y ago
  Your current fiat currency is not based on love and trust. Its Proof-of-World-Hegemony which puts crypto based consensus mechanisms to shame in terms of how not based on love and trust it is.
  - rakoo 3y ago
    My current fiat currency is absolutely based on trust that the State will uphold any disagreement, even though I know it is not benevolent. I also don't understand your point. The current world is not what I want, so let's make it worse according to my values ?
    - idiotsecant 3y ago
      The value of, for example, the dollar is not based on your trust, at least not at the first order. It's based on the economic and military power backing it up.
      - rakoo 3y ago
        Absolutely it is: it is based on the trust we all have that the government will do whatever it takes to guarantee the value of a dollar. Me being able to commerce with you in dollars and not, say, in old zimbabwean dollars rests on the shared assumptions that the US State can and will be there.
        idiotsecant 3y ago
        We're playing with words now but the power of the dollar does not arise from your faith in it, it arises from the nations around the world that view it as a stable medium of trade. This stability is based on the employment and perception of ability to employ hedgemonic hard and soft power. The US isn't going anywhere because it has the guns, bullets, bombs, allies, trade, and diplomacy to stay in the top spot. Your faith is a product of that system, not a cause of it. Your faith won't build aircraft carriers.
        rakoo 3y ago
        We're not talking about the same thing. You're talking about why the dollar will be stable (and I totally agree with you there). I'm talking about why you and I can do business in dollars, and that was the origin of the discussion: bitcoins are made for people who can't trust each other. With fiat currency we still don't trust each other, but we both trust a common third-party, and have good reason to trust it, at least on the "it will be there" side.
  - Brian_K_White 3y ago
    Sure it is. When someone gives me a dollar, I have no idea if it's fake or stolen. That sort of thing only gets handled very indirectly and much later and after a bad actor does their bad thing enough times for the surrounding greater population of good actors to notice a pattern.
- Brian_K_White 3y ago
  And I think this is not even stupid either. Bad actors exist and there must be some process for identifying and dealing with them, but they are not the majority of people and so probably don't have to be the first, last, primary, and only consideration at all times. IE living in a bomb shelter is not a life worth living, even though yes you will be safe from bombs and theives.
  - rakoo 3y ago
    Exactly. If I'll have to depend on someone else anyway (and I will), might as well build trust because a life being cautious about everything and everyone is not worth living. Only those with already vast amounts of money can afford it because they trust (heh) other people working for them to taue care of that, but to non-jokingly propose it as a standard for everyone is a dystopia.

rakoo 3y ago

What you don't understand is that "I don't trust others" is not a terminal statee I'd rather build trust again, create human connections, or rather, put them in front because there are always connections; nothing works if you trust noone. Building a societal system where you know you can rely on your peers, you build together, is a more joyful, more resilient, more ecological and also more realistic way of building a thriving society than distrust-by-default that cryptocurrencies live for.

idiotsecant 3y ago
Your current fiat currency is not based on love and trust. Its Proof-of-World-Hegemony which puts crypto based consensus mechanisms to shame in terms of how not based on love and trust it is.
- rakoo 3y ago
  My current fiat currency is absolutely based on trust that the State will uphold any disagreement, even though I know it is not benevolent. I also don't understand your point. The current world is not what I want, so let's make it worse according to my values ?
  - idiotsecant 3y ago
    The value of, for example, the dollar is not based on your trust, at least not at the first order. It's based on the economic and military power backing it up.
    - rakoo 3y ago
      Absolutely it is: it is based on the trust we all have that the government will do whatever it takes to guarantee the value of a dollar. Me being able to commerce with you in dollars and not, say, in old zimbabwean dollars rests on the shared assumptions that the US State can and will be there.
      - idiotsecant 3y ago
        We're playing with words now but the power of the dollar does not arise from your faith in it, it arises from the nations around the world that view it as a stable medium of trade. This stability is based on the employment and perception of ability to employ hedgemonic hard and soft power. The US isn't going anywhere because it has the guns, bullets, bombs, allies, trade, and diplomacy to stay in the top spot. Your faith is a product of that system, not a cause of it. Your faith won't build aircraft carriers.
        rakoo 3y ago
        We're not talking about the same thing. You're talking about why the dollar will be stable (and I totally agree with you there). I'm talking about why you and I can do business in dollars, and that was the origin of the discussion: bitcoins are made for people who can't trust each other. With fiat currency we still don't trust each other, but we both trust a common third-party, and have good reason to trust it, at least on the "it will be there" side.
- Brian_K_White 3y ago
  Sure it is. When someone gives me a dollar, I have no idea if it's fake or stolen. That sort of thing only gets handled very indirectly and much later and after a bad actor does their bad thing enough times for the surrounding greater population of good actors to notice a pattern.
Brian_K_White 3y ago
And I think this is not even stupid either. Bad actors exist and there must be some process for identifying and dealing with them, but they are not the majority of people and so probably don't have to be the first, last, primary, and only consideration at all times. IE living in a bomb shelter is not a life worth living, even though yes you will be safe from bombs and theives.
- rakoo 3y ago
  Exactly. If I'll have to depend on someone else anyway (and I will), might as well build trust because a life being cautious about everything and everyone is not worth living. Only those with already vast amounts of money can afford it because they trust (heh) other people working for them to taue care of that, but to non-jokingly propose it as a standard for everyone is a dystopia.