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They'll attack Tesla but not traditional automakers or other industrial instances more directly responsible for destroying the environment and contributing to c
by Sakos 3y ago
They'll attack Tesla but not traditional automakers or other industrial instances more directly responsible for destroying the environment and contributing to climate change.
I just can't with German eco-"activists".
- lifestyleguru 3y agobut the activists don't care about climate change
- Sakos 3y agoYou see the problem then.
- lukan 3y agoThey care, but see "capitalism" as the root problem and revolution as the only solution. It is just, that their concepts of what comes next, are quite vague.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago[flagged]
- rancour 3y ago[flagged]
- CaptainFever 3y agoSource: the 20th century and literally any history book
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoSource: open a book on life in communism/USSR, or just look at Eastern Europe pre-1990 versus today.
- sgift 3y ago[flagged]
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoExcuse my ignorance of someone who grew up in an ex-commie country, but what were the merits of communism that I missed? Sure, if you cherry pick you can always find merits in absolutely everything, including in catching Covid: you get sick leave and get to stay at home, or in the war in Ukraine: it boosts the defense industry spending. Even though those are all net negatives, but who cares right? Let's look at the merits and not at the whole picture which is overall terrible.
- sgift 3y agoSure, here's an easy example: The GDR had childcare for everyone. And the reason for that was based in the system, namely that communism says everyone is equal, men and women both work. Western Germany said childcare is the work of the woman, who cares about public childcare? The communist system was far better, which is why we - after having dismantled it in the 90s for Eastern Germany - are now back to providing childcare for all children. Though it will take decades until it works again.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoThe GDR is a highly biased example. The GDR was by far the wealthiest of the communist countries so that the USSR could flaunt how much better communism is to the western Germany. The GDR was basically the Apple Store equivalent of the USSR/comunist block in Eastern Europe. Life in the GDR was nothing like life in Romania for example which was closer to North Korea in how its citizens had food and other necessities.
- sgift 3y agoRomania is also a highly biased example based on Ceaușescus personal decisions on how a country should be run. Which shows my original point: Even within the communist countries you can find difference and things which worked better or worse. Just putting them in some big "it's communism, all was shit" bin is an oversimplification which doesn't help at all.
- galactus 3y agoThe funny part of people who have lived in ex-communist countries is that when they think capitalism they only think US and western Europe and not all that part of the rest of the world that has been fully integrated into global capitalism for quite a long time and is still very poor because they are in the _wrong_ side of capitalism, the part that is there only to function as providers of natural resources. The part that has been historically kept in that place (often violently) by the countries that people that come from ex-communist countries admire so much
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago>that part of the rest of the world that has been fully integrated into global capitalism for quite a long time and is still very poor because they are in the _wrong_ side of capitalism Sorry mate, but capitalism and integration into the world economy has lifted million(billions?) out of poverty even from the countries on the wrong side of capitalism (the ones being exploited by the richer ones). Look at present day South Korea vs North Korea. Post-WW2 South Korea was poorer than the North, but after the sixties the South economically skyrocketed while the North stil wallows in absolute poverty. A lot of Asia post-WW2(Japan, Taiwan, Korea, India, etc) became the sweatshop of the west/US, or "on the wrong side of capitalism" to quote you, and look at them now. Would they have been better off today without that phase? That's what you have to look at.
- galactus 3y agoScience and technology lifted them from poverty, not capitalism. The state in those countries played a huge role
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoScience and technology has progresses thanks to cash injections from capitalists, not just from governments of broke countries. The Taiwanese government paid to buy technology transfers on semiconductor manufacturing tech from the US in the sixties and seventies, but for that to happen, RCA in the US had to spend "hella' stacks" in R&D to invent that tech in the first place and iterate on it at scale until it got cheaper for mass production and affordable for other less wealthy countries to buy it too.
- mik1998 3y agoAren't they literally Ossi?
- arp242 3y agoTrying to force this in to a capitalism vs. communism false dilemma is so boring. No one mentioned communism until you. There is not a single fully capitalist nation state on the planet. All have significant legislation and elements of socialism. "Capitalism" can take many forms; some better than others. The (rather ranty) statement talks about "predatory capitalists" for example. "Crony capitalism" is also another commonly used term.
- lloeki 3y ago> It is just, that their concepts of what comes next, are quite vague Oh, many have at-hand solutions alright! It's just that these heart-warming intuitive solutions break down when faced with realities of scale. > Wind turbines deface! Solar panels pollute to produce! Batteries are full of metals you have to dig for! Screw industrial-scale food/production/distribution! Proof: I buy from the local shop/market/producer! Yay, getting your Thanksgiving turkey from the local farm sure is nice, except... how much local producers have to produce to provide continuous daily sustenance to, say, a ~1M town? How much surface is needed to produce that amount? How are the logistics handled to move such local goods around? How much energy is expended in the whole process? I'm not saying the ideas don't have merit, it's just that the revolution as envisioned falls apart with a bit of system thinking and a couple minutes of napkin math. That, or decimate the global human population and have survivors live in extreme scarcity.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoThe same eco activists who are anti nuclear but not anti coal in their back yard and who travel yearly across the globe to vacations in east Asia.
- account42 3y agoYou can blame the government-controlled media for fostering that mindset.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoNo but you see, the media in Germany is definitely NOT government controlled, it's akshually only government funded via the Rundfunkbeitrag and must follow all government imposed restrictions, but other than that it's pinky promise 100% free from political influence and its management is totally NOT connected to people in power, similarly how former German chancellors have not been connected to Russian gas.
- lukan 3y agoIn this case, nope. They are also very much against coal and probably were involved with the occupation of the Hambacher Forst to stop more coal extraction(something I supported as well). And it is likely that they are so radical, that they don't fly. You are talking about a different group with the vacation in Bali after blocking streets in germany, eco groups are really not that homogenous.
- bun_terminator 3y agoIt's not about eco at all, that's just a facade. They're part of the annoying trend that discriminates the world into good and bad and attack the "bad" by all means. Musk has been shifting to the "bad" side in public perception for a year or two. That's the only reason why Tesla is a target - this has nothing to do with Tesla at all.
- rbehrends 3y agoThis particular group ("Vulkangruppe") isn't about ecoactivism. They're an extremist, violent anarchist group that have previously attacked objects such as cable ducts or radio masts with the overall aim to disrupt public life.