3 ms·

The only reason that they can't keep it as simple as font-family: system-ui is probably because Canva is a tool for the larger crowd of designers. (I mean, I

The only reason that they can't keep it as simple as font-family: system-ui is probably because Canva is a tool for the larger crowd of designers. (I mean, I am not gonna start digging into what type of designer, that's a diff story) and designers LOVE goofin' around with fonts, right?

walteweiss 3y ago
A real designer can use just one font his entire career and produce amazing results. See Massimo Vignelli.
- eesmith 3y ago
  For the uninformed like me, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massimo_Vignelli https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massimo_Vignelli says "Vignelli's designs were famous for following a minimal aesthetic and a narrow range of typefaces that Vignelli considered to be perfect in their genre, including Akzidenz-Grotesk, Bodoni, Helvetica, Garamond No. 3 and Century Expanded. ... "Out of thousands of typefaces, all we need are a few basic ones, and trash the rest.""
  - daveslash 3y ago
    I'm not a font expert, but I do appreciate good typeface. I view typefaces like shoes - different types for different uses. I have my running shoes, my hiking boots, my beach shoes, my dress shoes, etc... I have my mono-spaced typefaces, my variable-width typefaces, my serif, and my sans serif.
- rob74 3y ago
  > Vignelli designed the iconic signage for the New York City Subway system during this period, and the 1970s–80s map of the system. If you're Vignelli, you can tell the MTA which font to pick. If you're not him (or someone of equally high standing), you will most likely have to work with a style guide someone else thought out, and use whatever font(s) the style guide says you should use... Plus, that was back in the seventies. Nowadays, every self-respecting company wants to have their own font (even if it's indistinguishable from Hel(l)vetica/Arial/whatever for >99% of people) - https://www.hvdfonts.com/custom-cases https://www.hvdfonts.com/custom-cases
- al_borland 3y ago
  If not just one, a small handful of maybe 3-5 fonts. The idea that someone needs to scroll through a list of hundreds of fonts every time they have a new project, and pick multiple fonts for every project, seems to mostly be a form of procrastination… or leaning on a font to cover up a weak design.
  - RuggedPineapple 3y ago
    This strikes me as similar to the Web Colors that used to be important. They had a selection of a couple dozen colors that were safe to use and would display correctly on basically the entire gamut of systems, browsers and color depths of the time in the 90s, and developers were... highly encouraged... to pick from them.
atoav 3y ago
Why can't programmers keep it as simple as dependencies: use system libraries? The reason is control. If you want your stuff to align neatly and look good in the details you need to define a font. And there is no single system font you can truly rely on, so you just bring your own. I'd be very happy if OS creators could agree on one set of universally supported system fonts, preferably open source, that work on all systems — until then your two options are: - not caring about good design, giving up control and using whatever (sometimes this is a feasible option) - caring about design and using your own font
- MaxMatti 3y ago
  Even if they did, some designer would just decide that they need a specific font that is not in the set and then it's just the same thing again.
  - atoav 3y ago
    Sure. Same as developers and system dependencies.
4hg4ufxhy 3y ago
I used to think fonts didn't matter. This changed when I had a takehome with a simple UI, some rows of text with alignment and some borders. The entire thing looked off until I setup the font that was in the spec. The difference with the "correct" font was so big it was hard to believe. I still think most of the time sticking to system is good enough. But I can see the custom font point of view if you strive for something more.
- pavlov 3y ago
  I’m a big fan of typography, but I also strongly feel that applications (both native and web) should use system fonts and obey any user preferences for weight and size. It’s a question of both accessibility and UX productivity. Switching to a different application shouldn’t be a jarring context switch. The user should be in control of their desktop environment, not the branding department at company X who insists that everything they release should be using font Y this year and then font Z the next. These changes bring no user benefits. It’s different for software and content that actually tells a story. Games and web sites have a lot more freedom for custom design, and typeface choices are an elemental part of that. I just wish more designers understood the distinction between telling a story and enabling people to be productive.
  - tdudhhu 3y ago
    I create a lot of webapps. The last couple of years I started using only system-ui as font @ 100% size. Nobody ever commented about this because it just looks good. When you are building a web experience I can understand the need for other fonts (although I block downloading external fonts). But I totally agree with you when it comes to (web) apps.
    - tazu 3y ago
      > The last couple of years I started using only system-ui as font @ 100% size. Question because I'm a frontend noob. How do you achieve "100% size"? I've just been using font-size: 16px on the body element (which seems wrong), but I don't know how to word a search query for this.

walteweiss 3y ago

A real designer can use just one font his entire career and produce amazing results. See Massimo Vignelli.

eesmith 3y ago
For the uninformed like me, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massimo_Vignelli https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massimo_Vignelli says "Vignelli's designs were famous for following a minimal aesthetic and a narrow range of typefaces that Vignelli considered to be perfect in their genre, including Akzidenz-Grotesk, Bodoni, Helvetica, Garamond No. 3 and Century Expanded. ... "Out of thousands of typefaces, all we need are a few basic ones, and trash the rest.""
- daveslash 3y ago
  I'm not a font expert, but I do appreciate good typeface. I view typefaces like shoes - different types for different uses. I have my running shoes, my hiking boots, my beach shoes, my dress shoes, etc... I have my mono-spaced typefaces, my variable-width typefaces, my serif, and my sans serif.
rob74 3y ago
> Vignelli designed the iconic signage for the New York City Subway system during this period, and the 1970s–80s map of the system. If you're Vignelli, you can tell the MTA which font to pick. If you're not him (or someone of equally high standing), you will most likely have to work with a style guide someone else thought out, and use whatever font(s) the style guide says you should use... Plus, that was back in the seventies. Nowadays, every self-respecting company wants to have their own font (even if it's indistinguishable from Hel(l)vetica/Arial/whatever for >99% of people) - https://www.hvdfonts.com/custom-cases https://www.hvdfonts.com/custom-cases
al_borland 3y ago
If not just one, a small handful of maybe 3-5 fonts. The idea that someone needs to scroll through a list of hundreds of fonts every time they have a new project, and pick multiple fonts for every project, seems to mostly be a form of procrastination… or leaning on a font to cover up a weak design.
- RuggedPineapple 3y ago
  This strikes me as similar to the Web Colors that used to be important. They had a selection of a couple dozen colors that were safe to use and would display correctly on basically the entire gamut of systems, browsers and color depths of the time in the 90s, and developers were... highly encouraged... to pick from them.

atoav 3y ago

Why can't programmers keep it as simple as dependencies: use system libraries? The reason is control. If you want your stuff to align neatly and look good in the details you need to define a font. And there is no single system font you can truly rely on, so you just bring your own. I'd be very happy if OS creators could agree on one set of universally supported system fonts, preferably open source, that work on all systems — until then your two options are: - not caring about good design, giving up control and using whatever (sometimes this is a feasible option) - caring about design and using your own font

MaxMatti 3y ago
Even if they did, some designer would just decide that they need a specific font that is not in the set and then it's just the same thing again.
- atoav 3y ago
  Sure. Same as developers and system dependencies.

4hg4ufxhy 3y ago

I used to think fonts didn't matter. This changed when I had a takehome with a simple UI, some rows of text with alignment and some borders. The entire thing looked off until I setup the font that was in the spec. The difference with the "correct" font was so big it was hard to believe. I still think most of the time sticking to system is good enough. But I can see the custom font point of view if you strive for something more.

pavlov 3y ago
I’m a big fan of typography, but I also strongly feel that applications (both native and web) should use system fonts and obey any user preferences for weight and size. It’s a question of both accessibility and UX productivity. Switching to a different application shouldn’t be a jarring context switch. The user should be in control of their desktop environment, not the branding department at company X who insists that everything they release should be using font Y this year and then font Z the next. These changes bring no user benefits. It’s different for software and content that actually tells a story. Games and web sites have a lot more freedom for custom design, and typeface choices are an elemental part of that. I just wish more designers understood the distinction between telling a story and enabling people to be productive.
- tdudhhu 3y ago
  I create a lot of webapps. The last couple of years I started using only system-ui as font @ 100% size. Nobody ever commented about this because it just looks good. When you are building a web experience I can understand the need for other fonts (although I block downloading external fonts). But I totally agree with you when it comes to (web) apps.
  - tazu 3y ago
    > The last couple of years I started using only system-ui as font @ 100% size. Question because I'm a frontend noob. How do you achieve "100% size"? I've just been using font-size: 16px on the body element (which seems wrong), but I don't know how to word a search query for this.