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The author started by seriously admitting the drawbacks of C. Then, somehow, he says thanks to those flaws he has to pay higher attention when building softwar

The author started by seriously admitting the drawbacks of C. Then, somehow, he says thanks to those flaws he has to pay higher attention when building software in C, he created very reliable tools. That's something I can understand because when I wanted to buy a motorbike I was advised to ride a bicycle first since it's more difficult to control. Except that the White House called recently for companies to not use non memory safe languages such as C to build software.

mgaunard 3y ago
That's not what the white house said and they're not an authority in software engineering anyway. Just sensationalist journalism.
- begueradj 3y ago
  Is Stack Overflow also sensationalist journalism ? https://stackoverflow.blog/2024/03/04/in-rust-we-trust-white-house-office-urges-memory-safety/ https://stackoverflow.blog/2024/03/04/in-rust-we-trust-white... In 6 hours, I will share the link to the official and related White House PDF document.
- topspin 3y ago
  This is what the White House said: https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Final-ONCD-Technical-Report.pdf https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Final-... Interpreting this as "stop using C/C++" isn't much of a stretch. Yes, it is not a demand. Anticipating such a demand isn't a bad bet, however. Who is an authority, anyhow? The White House is citing NIST, DHS, Microsoft, Cambridge DSCT, Google and others. Whom do you offer? I don't like this myself. We're rapidly building tools that could conceivably solve memory safety in C/C++ code bases. I don't want C pilloried by Authority and its group thinking ways.
  - bdw5204 3y ago
    At most, the White House's opinion on C/C++ will impact government contractors and people who care about the White House's opinion on matters it isn't qualified to speak about. I'd only be worried if I were in the business of selling software written in C/C++ to the government but a few campaign donations to politicians would probably get that fixed.
    - jandrewrogers 3y ago
      Most interesting parts of US government will buy and consume software written in C++ without qualification or reservation for the indefinite future. People are wishcasting, it isn’t a serious risk. New systems are being planned in C++ today and language choice isn’t even mentioned. Parts of government have a lot of experience with C++ in high reliability contexts. There are many advanced systems in government written in C++ that would be impractical to deliver in any other language even if you were starting from scratch today. Extreme data intensity and throughput requirements are actually causing systems written in memory safe languages like Java to be replaced with C++ systems currently. Rust is often not a good fit for the software architectures required unless you are comfortable writing a lot of awkward unsafe code. The government is pragmatic about programming languages, not ideological. They use both Rust and C++ in new systems but not for the same purpose, both have unique strengths in certain roles that ideologues are loathe to acknowledge. I use Rust and C++ the same way.
      - oasisaimlessly 3y ago
        > Rust is often not a good fit for the software architectures required unless you are comfortable writing a lot of awkward unsafe code. If you have to write "a lot of awkward unsafe code" in Rust, you're doing something wrong. I use C++ rather than Rust, but any time I'm implementing any sort of non-trivial data structure or inter-thread communication, I encapsulate it in a "safe" interface that is impossible to misuse (at least in debug mode) and clearly deliniates the boundary at which e.g. a memory safety or data race audit would have to cover. In general, minimizing the volume and surface area of "unsafe" code is a generally useful heuristic in any systems language.
tored 3y ago
I built a house by only using a broken hammer, that made the house better because I needed to spend more time to handle the broken hammer correctly.
- begueradj 3y ago
  Not all comparisons fit.
bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
The white house, the thought leaders in software engineering.

mgaunard 3y ago

That's not what the white house said and they're not an authority in software engineering anyway. Just sensationalist journalism.

begueradj 3y ago
Is Stack Overflow also sensationalist journalism ? https://stackoverflow.blog/2024/03/04/in-rust-we-trust-white-house-office-urges-memory-safety/ https://stackoverflow.blog/2024/03/04/in-rust-we-trust-white... In 6 hours, I will share the link to the official and related White House PDF document.
topspin 3y ago
This is what the White House said: https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Final-ONCD-Technical-Report.pdf https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Final-... Interpreting this as "stop using C/C++" isn't much of a stretch. Yes, it is not a demand. Anticipating such a demand isn't a bad bet, however. Who is an authority, anyhow? The White House is citing NIST, DHS, Microsoft, Cambridge DSCT, Google and others. Whom do you offer? I don't like this myself. We're rapidly building tools that could conceivably solve memory safety in C/C++ code bases. I don't want C pilloried by Authority and its group thinking ways.
- bdw5204 3y ago
  At most, the White House's opinion on C/C++ will impact government contractors and people who care about the White House's opinion on matters it isn't qualified to speak about. I'd only be worried if I were in the business of selling software written in C/C++ to the government but a few campaign donations to politicians would probably get that fixed.
  - jandrewrogers 3y ago
    Most interesting parts of US government will buy and consume software written in C++ without qualification or reservation for the indefinite future. People are wishcasting, it isn’t a serious risk. New systems are being planned in C++ today and language choice isn’t even mentioned. Parts of government have a lot of experience with C++ in high reliability contexts. There are many advanced systems in government written in C++ that would be impractical to deliver in any other language even if you were starting from scratch today. Extreme data intensity and throughput requirements are actually causing systems written in memory safe languages like Java to be replaced with C++ systems currently. Rust is often not a good fit for the software architectures required unless you are comfortable writing a lot of awkward unsafe code. The government is pragmatic about programming languages, not ideological. They use both Rust and C++ in new systems but not for the same purpose, both have unique strengths in certain roles that ideologues are loathe to acknowledge. I use Rust and C++ the same way.
    - oasisaimlessly 3y ago
      > Rust is often not a good fit for the software architectures required unless you are comfortable writing a lot of awkward unsafe code. If you have to write "a lot of awkward unsafe code" in Rust, you're doing something wrong. I use C++ rather than Rust, but any time I'm implementing any sort of non-trivial data structure or inter-thread communication, I encapsulate it in a "safe" interface that is impossible to misuse (at least in debug mode) and clearly deliniates the boundary at which e.g. a memory safety or data race audit would have to cover. In general, minimizing the volume and surface area of "unsafe" code is a generally useful heuristic in any systems language.

tored 3y ago

I built a house by only using a broken hammer, that made the house better because I needed to spend more time to handle the broken hammer correctly.

begueradj 3y ago
Not all comparisons fit.

bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago

The white house, the thought leaders in software engineering.