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I went to a 95% percent black high school. I recall my English teachers stressing avoidance of AAE (then called Ebonics) in professional settings. Speak howev

I went to a 95% percent black high school. I recall my English teachers stressing avoidance of AAE (then called Ebonics) in professional settings. Speak however you wish with your friends, they said, but use Standardized American English for the job interview. Apparently this goes double for LLMs. They even made us write the same paper twice. Once in standard English and again in AEE, so the kids would know the difference.

lolinder 3y ago
This is good advice for students who speak native AAE because there exists bias against the dialect. It's better for their own, personal life trajectory to adapt to the way that the world will judge their dialect. However, that doesn't make it okay to continue to perpetuate the idea that AAE is somehow a lesser dialect and that AAE speakers ought to have to mask their accent in the way that an Indian, Brit, or Australian doesn't. We can simultaneously teach students how to navigate the dangers of the world they live in while trying to fix said dangers for future generations.
- opwieurposiu 3y ago
  Lol wut
  - yaheard 3y ago
    That's gonna be an oof from me, dawg https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/06/the-habitual-be-why-cookie-monster-be-eating-cookies-whether-he-is-eating-cookies-or-not.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/06/the-habitual-be-why...
- jdietrich 3y ago
  >However, that doesn't make it okay to continue to perpetuate the idea that AAE is somehow a lesser dialect and that AAE speakers ought to have to mask their accent in the way that an Indian, Brit, or Australian doesn't. As a Brit living in Britain, I habitually code-switch, because my natural dialect is coded as low-status. If I used my natural dialect in a job interview, it would very clearly communicate one of two things - either I am unwilling to conform to the behavioural norms of a professional workplace, or I lack the linguistic skills to do so. I cannot pretend to understand the cultural context surrounding AAVE, but the prejudice against my own dialect is broadly rational. Learning to speak in mildly-accented standard English is just one of many shibboleths that signify membership of the professional middle class.
  - Aachen 3y ago
    Can I ask what British dialect is associated with lower class? I was not aware there were class-indicating dialects besides AAVE to be honest. To me, anything British sounds higher class if anything Makes me wonder if we have them in Dutch as well. I guess simply sounding like a foreigner, or making mistakes about word gender or such, will make you stand out as not knowing the language properly (even if you do and merely haven't got the pronunciation down), but I wouldn't know of anyone who grew up speaking Dutch in a native way who subsequently sounds lower class. The Belgian Flemish and southern Limburgians sound funny to most people, but it's not a lower class, just a region-of-origin indicator
    - jgwil2 3y ago
      Not OP but in Southeastern England obviously Cockney, Estuary English, or Multicultural London English are considered lower prestige dialects whereas RP is high prestige. Other regions may have a prestige version of the local dialect that incorporates some RP features while retaining some local features, but broadly speaking, regional speech patterns have lower prestige because they tend to be more prominent among people with less education.
    - jdietrich 3y ago
      Any strong regional accent is coded as working class. The upper class speak Received Pronunciation, which is broadly viewed as a "standard" accent and was once the only accent allowed on the BBC. The middle class will avoid using dialect and significantly soften their accent, shifting towards RP. There has been a long-standing debate about whether aspirational members of the working class should moderate their accents in order to advance professionally, but the reality is that most feel obliged to do so. Accent bias is still recognised as a major barrier to social mobility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Received_Pronunciation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Received_Pronunciation https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Accents-and-social-mobility.pdf https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Accen...
    - mewpmewp2 3y ago
      Using the word "innit" is something that to me would imply lower/rebel class. Mind you, I only know it mostly from TV Shows/Movies.
- raxxorraxor 3y ago
  There are dialects that are associated with wealth and education that are still discouraged in the business world for various practical reasons. It certainly is a penalty to have a dialect and many educated parents will try to school their kids to speak differently. Not as a replacement, but as an alternative. I doubt you can remove the preference due to the advantages. There is a force for consolidation, just as there is with English as a whole for example.

lolinder 3y ago

This is good advice for students who speak native AAE because there exists bias against the dialect. It's better for their own, personal life trajectory to adapt to the way that the world will judge their dialect. However, that doesn't make it okay to continue to perpetuate the idea that AAE is somehow a lesser dialect and that AAE speakers ought to have to mask their accent in the way that an Indian, Brit, or Australian doesn't. We can simultaneously teach students how to navigate the dangers of the world they live in while trying to fix said dangers for future generations.

opwieurposiu 3y ago
Lol wut
- yaheard 3y ago
  That's gonna be an oof from me, dawg https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/06/the-habitual-be-why-cookie-monster-be-eating-cookies-whether-he-is-eating-cookies-or-not.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/06/the-habitual-be-why...
jdietrich 3y ago
>However, that doesn't make it okay to continue to perpetuate the idea that AAE is somehow a lesser dialect and that AAE speakers ought to have to mask their accent in the way that an Indian, Brit, or Australian doesn't. As a Brit living in Britain, I habitually code-switch, because my natural dialect is coded as low-status. If I used my natural dialect in a job interview, it would very clearly communicate one of two things - either I am unwilling to conform to the behavioural norms of a professional workplace, or I lack the linguistic skills to do so. I cannot pretend to understand the cultural context surrounding AAVE, but the prejudice against my own dialect is broadly rational. Learning to speak in mildly-accented standard English is just one of many shibboleths that signify membership of the professional middle class.
- Aachen 3y ago
  Can I ask what British dialect is associated with lower class? I was not aware there were class-indicating dialects besides AAVE to be honest. To me, anything British sounds higher class if anything Makes me wonder if we have them in Dutch as well. I guess simply sounding like a foreigner, or making mistakes about word gender or such, will make you stand out as not knowing the language properly (even if you do and merely haven't got the pronunciation down), but I wouldn't know of anyone who grew up speaking Dutch in a native way who subsequently sounds lower class. The Belgian Flemish and southern Limburgians sound funny to most people, but it's not a lower class, just a region-of-origin indicator
  - jgwil2 3y ago
    Not OP but in Southeastern England obviously Cockney, Estuary English, or Multicultural London English are considered lower prestige dialects whereas RP is high prestige. Other regions may have a prestige version of the local dialect that incorporates some RP features while retaining some local features, but broadly speaking, regional speech patterns have lower prestige because they tend to be more prominent among people with less education.
  - jdietrich 3y ago
    Any strong regional accent is coded as working class. The upper class speak Received Pronunciation, which is broadly viewed as a "standard" accent and was once the only accent allowed on the BBC. The middle class will avoid using dialect and significantly soften their accent, shifting towards RP. There has been a long-standing debate about whether aspirational members of the working class should moderate their accents in order to advance professionally, but the reality is that most feel obliged to do so. Accent bias is still recognised as a major barrier to social mobility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Received_Pronunciation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Received_Pronunciation https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Accents-and-social-mobility.pdf https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Accen...
  - mewpmewp2 3y ago
    Using the word "innit" is something that to me would imply lower/rebel class. Mind you, I only know it mostly from TV Shows/Movies.
raxxorraxor 3y ago
There are dialects that are associated with wealth and education that are still discouraged in the business world for various practical reasons. It certainly is a penalty to have a dialect and many educated parents will try to school their kids to speak differently. Not as a replacement, but as an alternative. I doubt you can remove the preference due to the advantages. There is a force for consolidation, just as there is with English as a whole for example.