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And after you give up on Ukraine what's next? Georgia? Moldova? Estonia? Poland? Lithuania? More? They're all fair game for Russia are they? Russia will find y

And after you give up on Ukraine what's next? Georgia? Moldova? Estonia? Poland? Lithuania? More? They're all fair game for Russia are they? Russia will find your submissiveness very helpful.

argentier 3y ago
[flagged]
- peutetre 3y ago
  > Domino theory nonsense. It isn't theory. It's a practical understanding of who and what Putin and the Russia state are. The practical reality is that Russia has been expanding by increments. First Georgia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War Then Crimea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_occupation_of_Crimea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_occupation_of_Crimea And now they're trying for more of Ukraine. Submission and appeasement don't lead to good outcomes. > why did they offer Ukraine a peace deal Russia can end the war tomorrow. All Russia needs to do is get out of Ukraine. All of it. Simple to do, easy to achieve. That's the best peace deal Russia can offer.
  - argentier 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - peutetre 3y ago
      Of course it's serious. It's serious enough for Ukrainians to be dying every day for the defense of their nation. Russians are dying every day too. Putin can save many Russian lives with a simple order to get out of Ukraine. Putin plainly values his vanity over the lives of the Russian people.
      - argentier 3y ago
        It's about Russian security, not Putin's vanity. Please try to raise the level of discourse beyond the boogyman propaganda so beloved of Hollywood. This is serious, deadly serious, and seeing it treated so lightly is painful.
        peutetre 3y ago
        Everything Putin is doing is worsening Russia's security situation. As a direct result of Russia's war, NATO has expanded and Russia is now very much in China's pocket. China is quite happy to have Russia as a vassal state. Russia had a mini civil war with Prigozhin's rebellion. Russians have been killing Russians. Russia's life expectancy was already lower than that of developed countries and this pointless war of choice is steadily killing off an entire generation of young Russians.
        argentier 3y ago
        These are simply US talking points, and not very good ones.
        peutetre 3y ago
        No, these are simply the facts of the matter.
        Wytwwww 3y ago
        Right.. except that person is just describing actual facts. Also why do you feel the need to make such pointless contributions?
        type0 3y ago
        I'm hearing Russians will feel secure when they conquer all the former USSR territory > boogyman propaganda so beloved of Hollywood. not hollywood, they say it on Russian state tv, if you take your head out of your arse and manage to watch and listen you'll see it loud and clearly
- khokhol 3y ago
  That "peace deal" would have required that Ukraine permanently recognize Russian sovereignty over Crimea and the Donbas (on top of other concessions). This is why Russia is called "expansionist". Because it likes to expand its territory. Before Boris arrived to scupper it. That's not what happened. I know you read some snippet somewhere that made it sound like that's what happened. But simply put, you're being played. And that's not actually what happened.
  - argentier 3y ago
    Naftali Bennett (former Israeli premier): https://www.hungarianconservative.com/articles/current/russia_ukraine-peace_blocked_western_powers_naftali_bennett_mediationraeli-prime-minister-claims/ https://www.hungarianconservative.com/articles/current/russi... Watch the interview if you don't like the source. Ukrainian negotiator David Arahamiya: https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/official-johnson-forced-kyiv-to-refuse-russian-peace-deal/ https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/official-john... Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lt4E0DiJts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lt4E0DiJts More than snippets
    - khokhol 3y ago
      That's the spin of those two observers. But there was a lot to more to the actual chain of events at the time. And lo and behold, the fact of two guys stating a certain narrative about those events (then embellished up a bit by the publications quoting them) does not make it so. Even the article you're citing about Arahamiya's version of events isn't so clear-cut about the matter (it says Boris's advice was but one factor among many) as you're making it out to be.
    - mopsi 3y ago
      Every link of yours is a well-known spin. For example, Bennett has clarified that his words have been taken out of context and misrepresented, and Arahamiya has said that no-one on Ukrainian side belived that Russian peace plan was genuine and not a stalling tactic. Perhaps it would be a good idea to switch to sites that don't have "conservative" in their URL.
- kranke155 3y ago
  This is a lie
  - argentier 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - kranke155 3y ago
      So Boris Johnson single handedly changed the course of Ukraine’s history ? Or, equally likely, he just arrived with guarantees that weapon deliveries would be maintained ? Whether Russia presented a so called “peace deal” is irrelevant. The propaganda claim is Boris Johnson came in and somehow mind warped the Ukraine side. Which, like a lot of propaganda in this war, completely removes the agency from the Ukrainians. Funny how that works.
      - argentier 3y ago
        Whatever he arrived with, it changed the plans of the Ukrainian government. I don't see how it removes any agency from Ukraine, or why that would even be a meaningful statement.
        Wytwwww 3y ago
        > Whatever he arrived with, it changed the plans of the Ukrainian government So you're claiming that Ukrainian government was willing to give up all the annexed regions including the territories they still controlled? Because that's what Russia was demanding. Do you have any evidence to back your claims?
        boffinAudio 3y ago
        https://www.intellinews.com/top-ukrainian-politician-oleksiy-arestovych-gives-seventh-confirmation-of-russia-ukraine-peace-deal-agreed-in-march-2022-302876/ https://www.intellinews.com/top-ukrainian-politician-oleksiy...
- kuratkull 3y ago
  Russian deals don't look like what reasonable people think they should look like. They are only ever made to serve propaganda needs, you have fallen for it.
  - argentier 3y ago
    Sure, Russians are uniquely evil orcs. This is just propaganda for the rubes.
    - Wytwwww 3y ago
      Not uniquely but yes. > This is just propaganda for the rubes. Perhaps let's keep language like that on reddit?
  - boffinAudio 3y ago
    Who are you to say what a "real" Russian deal is? Are you a Russian citizen? If no: then you can do NOTHING effective about Russia. Reign your own war criminals in and bring them to heel. Only after you have done that, are you going to be in a position to do anything effective about Russia - if, indeed, the "Russian threat" boogeyman still persists, long after you've actually sent your own war criminals to rot in chains in The Hague .. which is, admittedly, quite unlikely given that the very same war criminals you would have to confront and prosecute are the ones telling you boogeyman stories ..
- tim333 3y ago
  “This is nothing but total nonsense and Russian propaganda,” - Boris (https://archive.ph/KWpGG#selection-2739.75-2739.135 https://archive.ph/KWpGG#selection-2739.75-2739.135)
  - argentier 3y ago
    he would say that, wouldn't he?
- Wytwwww 3y ago
  Because they think that some people are still dumb enough to trust Putin/Russia?

And after you give up on Ukraine what's next? Georgia? Moldova? Estonia? Poland? Lithuania? More? They're all fair game for Russia are they? Russia will find your submissiveness very helpful.

argentier 3y ago

[flagged]

peutetre 3y ago
> Domino theory nonsense. It isn't theory. It's a practical understanding of who and what Putin and the Russia state are. The practical reality is that Russia has been expanding by increments. First Georgia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War Then Crimea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_occupation_of_Crimea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_occupation_of_Crimea And now they're trying for more of Ukraine. Submission and appeasement don't lead to good outcomes. > why did they offer Ukraine a peace deal Russia can end the war tomorrow. All Russia needs to do is get out of Ukraine. All of it. Simple to do, easy to achieve. That's the best peace deal Russia can offer.
- argentier 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - peutetre 3y ago
    Of course it's serious. It's serious enough for Ukrainians to be dying every day for the defense of their nation. Russians are dying every day too. Putin can save many Russian lives with a simple order to get out of Ukraine. Putin plainly values his vanity over the lives of the Russian people.
    - argentier 3y ago
      It's about Russian security, not Putin's vanity. Please try to raise the level of discourse beyond the boogyman propaganda so beloved of Hollywood. This is serious, deadly serious, and seeing it treated so lightly is painful.
      - peutetre 3y ago
        Everything Putin is doing is worsening Russia's security situation. As a direct result of Russia's war, NATO has expanded and Russia is now very much in China's pocket. China is quite happy to have Russia as a vassal state. Russia had a mini civil war with Prigozhin's rebellion. Russians have been killing Russians. Russia's life expectancy was already lower than that of developed countries and this pointless war of choice is steadily killing off an entire generation of young Russians.
        argentier 3y ago
        These are simply US talking points, and not very good ones.
        peutetre 3y ago
        No, these are simply the facts of the matter.
        Wytwwww 3y ago
        Right.. except that person is just describing actual facts. Also why do you feel the need to make such pointless contributions?
      - type0 3y ago
        I'm hearing Russians will feel secure when they conquer all the former USSR territory > boogyman propaganda so beloved of Hollywood. not hollywood, they say it on Russian state tv, if you take your head out of your arse and manage to watch and listen you'll see it loud and clearly
khokhol 3y ago
That "peace deal" would have required that Ukraine permanently recognize Russian sovereignty over Crimea and the Donbas (on top of other concessions). This is why Russia is called "expansionist". Because it likes to expand its territory. Before Boris arrived to scupper it. That's not what happened. I know you read some snippet somewhere that made it sound like that's what happened. But simply put, you're being played. And that's not actually what happened.
- argentier 3y ago
  Naftali Bennett (former Israeli premier): https://www.hungarianconservative.com/articles/current/russia_ukraine-peace_blocked_western_powers_naftali_bennett_mediationraeli-prime-minister-claims/ https://www.hungarianconservative.com/articles/current/russi... Watch the interview if you don't like the source. Ukrainian negotiator David Arahamiya: https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/official-johnson-forced-kyiv-to-refuse-russian-peace-deal/ https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/official-john... Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lt4E0DiJts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lt4E0DiJts More than snippets
  - khokhol 3y ago
    That's the spin of those two observers. But there was a lot to more to the actual chain of events at the time. And lo and behold, the fact of two guys stating a certain narrative about those events (then embellished up a bit by the publications quoting them) does not make it so. Even the article you're citing about Arahamiya's version of events isn't so clear-cut about the matter (it says Boris's advice was but one factor among many) as you're making it out to be.
  - mopsi 3y ago
    Every link of yours is a well-known spin. For example, Bennett has clarified that his words have been taken out of context and misrepresented, and Arahamiya has said that no-one on Ukrainian side belived that Russian peace plan was genuine and not a stalling tactic. Perhaps it would be a good idea to switch to sites that don't have "conservative" in their URL.
kranke155 3y ago
This is a lie
- argentier 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - kranke155 3y ago
    So Boris Johnson single handedly changed the course of Ukraine’s history ? Or, equally likely, he just arrived with guarantees that weapon deliveries would be maintained ? Whether Russia presented a so called “peace deal” is irrelevant. The propaganda claim is Boris Johnson came in and somehow mind warped the Ukraine side. Which, like a lot of propaganda in this war, completely removes the agency from the Ukrainians. Funny how that works.
    - argentier 3y ago
      Whatever he arrived with, it changed the plans of the Ukrainian government. I don't see how it removes any agency from Ukraine, or why that would even be a meaningful statement.
      - Wytwwww 3y ago
        > Whatever he arrived with, it changed the plans of the Ukrainian government So you're claiming that Ukrainian government was willing to give up all the annexed regions including the territories they still controlled? Because that's what Russia was demanding. Do you have any evidence to back your claims?
        boffinAudio 3y ago
        https://www.intellinews.com/top-ukrainian-politician-oleksiy-arestovych-gives-seventh-confirmation-of-russia-ukraine-peace-deal-agreed-in-march-2022-302876/ https://www.intellinews.com/top-ukrainian-politician-oleksiy...
kuratkull 3y ago
Russian deals don't look like what reasonable people think they should look like. They are only ever made to serve propaganda needs, you have fallen for it.
- argentier 3y ago
  Sure, Russians are uniquely evil orcs. This is just propaganda for the rubes.
  - Wytwwww 3y ago
    Not uniquely but yes. > This is just propaganda for the rubes. Perhaps let's keep language like that on reddit?
- boffinAudio 3y ago
  Who are you to say what a "real" Russian deal is? Are you a Russian citizen? If no: then you can do NOTHING effective about Russia. Reign your own war criminals in and bring them to heel. Only after you have done that, are you going to be in a position to do anything effective about Russia - if, indeed, the "Russian threat" boogeyman still persists, long after you've actually sent your own war criminals to rot in chains in The Hague .. which is, admittedly, quite unlikely given that the very same war criminals you would have to confront and prosecute are the ones telling you boogeyman stories ..
tim333 3y ago
“This is nothing but total nonsense and Russian propaganda,” - Boris (https://archive.ph/KWpGG#selection-2739.75-2739.135 https://archive.ph/KWpGG#selection-2739.75-2739.135)
- argentier 3y ago
  he would say that, wouldn't he?
Wytwwww 3y ago
Because they think that some people are still dumb enough to trust Putin/Russia?