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> Ukraine should make a deal instead of sacrificing people without limits. Imagine you're an Ukrainian. Is there a deal which you would not accept and rather c
by The_Colonel 3y ago
> Ukraine should make a deal instead of sacrificing people without limits.
Imagine you're an Ukrainian. Is there a deal which you would not accept and rather continue fighting or would you accept literally any deal (including unconditional surrender)?
- hackandthink 3y agoI would have been the first to leave Ukraine. (I dodged the draft in Germany) And I'm fine with all the Ukrainians in Germany who do not want to fight. (and I would welcome Russians who do not want to fight) Ukraine has no good options. Mearsheimer predicts a territorial loss of 40% and no NATO membership for the rest of Ukraine.
- The_Colonel 3y ago> Mearsheimer predicts a territorial loss of 40% and no NATO membership for the rest of Ukraine. Losing 40% is much better than losing 100%. (Also it's Mearsheimer, what a joke)
- riku_iki 3y ago> Mearsheimer predicts a territorial loss of 40% and no NATO membership for the rest of Ukraine. many predicted Kyiv will fall in 3 days in 2022.
- garaetjjte 3y ago[flagged]
- The_Colonel 3y agoFinland faced way worse population odds in the Winter war, yet still managed to stop the Soviets. They had to concede some territory, but it was very far from a surrender.
- argentier 3y ago[flagged]
- The_Colonel 3y agoWhen did Soviet troops parade in Helsinki? When did Finland join USSR as one of its republics? Because that's what would happen if Finland surrendered. Finland was part of Russian empire just 20-something years ago, Stalin wouldn't be happy with just sliver of the land unless he was forced to a compromise.
- Etherlord87 3y agoMake an experiment and try to predict what would happen otherwise. Or just read my prediction below. Countries who don't force people to fight are: - much weaker in the case of war, - with such policies not being (a well hidden) secret, an attractive target for a hostile country. So such countries are going to statistically be attacked more often, and statistically lose more often. So if you don't counter those statistical downsides somehow, you should expect such human-rights-respecting countries to eventually be displaced by less human-righty countries. With NATO, advanced technology and enough people willing to fight you indeed might not need to force a draft; but clearly not the case for Ukraine.
- garaetjjte 3y agoI don't have perfect solution, but "to avoid being defeated by evil we must become evil ourselves" is not really the point. There are things that are lose-lose, making war worse for both sides. For things like chemical weapons we have treaties banning it, while for conscription all politicians are quiet about while pretending to care about human rights.
- ianburrell 3y agoI find it interesting that it is always Ukraine that should surrender and not sacrifice their people. When Russia is sacrificing its people in pointless invasion that has been stuck in stalemate for a year. They could end the war, and their suffering, tomorrow. They probably could even negotiate keeping Crimea.