4 ms·

> "The Thames, used for centuries as a convenient dumping ground for sewage..." Still continues to this day. > "Thames Water has pumped at least 72bn litres o

by scrlk 3y ago

> "The Thames, used for centuries as a convenient dumping ground for sewage..." Still continues to this day. > "Thames Water has pumped at least 72bn litres of sewage into the River Thames since 2020..." > "In most areas there are not volume measuring devices, but Thames Water use sewage monitors to measure volume in some locations. The water company used them while making the Thames Tideway, and they are the only known monitors of the kind fitted in the country. Because they do not cover the entire network, it is likely far more sewage was released than that measured." https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/10/thames-water-pumped-sewage-into-thames https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/10/thames-w...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kristianp 3y ago
Wow, I always assumed it was pumped far out to sea. Is it treated first?
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  Not currently; if the system is overwhelmed and the treatment plants start backing up then untreated water will be released in an emergency to prevent sewer from flooding up into the streets. They are currently spending 4.3B pounds to fix it with basically a giant holding tunnel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Tideway_Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Tideway_Tunnel
nextos 3y ago
Unfortunately, Thames Water infrastructure, once state-of-the-art, is really old and it shows. It needs some serious investment to bring it to modern standards. In Oxford, I have noticed raw sewage floating in the river several times. Things were pretty bad and authorities have sometimes issued a warning to potential swimmers. In the market town Thame, next to the eponymous river Thames, there were frequent leaks to the main street pavement. Really disgusting and sad as it is otherwise a very cool area.
- teruakohatu 3y ago
  Is this not normal state-of-affairs on most countries where rivers are part of the storm water system? In New Zealand where I am, rivers are frequently closed for swimming after very heavy rain. We have separated sewage and storm water but in heavy rain, storm water ends up getting into the sewage system which can overflow. Short of making a sewage system capable of handling the maximum flow (very expensive and not possible for an established city), or preventing any water getting into sewage (tricky to do this in a foolproof manner, as sewage needs to be vented otherwise gases build up and needs to be accessible) not much can be done about it beyond ensuring the sewage system is not overflowing for other reasons such as blockages.
  - nextos 3y ago
    EU mandates storm retention tanks, i.e. a buffer, to minimize this problem. For instance, Madrid has built a massive 400,000 m3 tank and the problem is now solved. Lots of other main cities are doing / have done the same. Without those, in the event of heavy rain, there is not only raw sewage but also lots of contaminants from e.g. traffic that leak into rivers and kill everything there periodically.
    - teruakohatu 3y ago
      Wow, I looked it up. I guesstimated it would have a cylinder diameter of 160m and depth of 20m and I was pretty close at ~22m x ~190m given (its an irregular polyhedron). Its an underground lake. I guess its a question of scale, I was referring to small rivers that meander through city suburbs and are part of the stormwater network and may have a few overflows on occasion, rather than a city of Madrid which has a population about 60% of my entire country. In New Zealand stormwater to my knowledge is not treated. If anyone else is interested: https://www.canaldeisabelsegunda.es/en/-/tanques-de-tormentas-protectores-de-los-rios https://www.canaldeisabelsegunda.es/en/-/tanques-de-tormenta...
      - resolutebat 3y ago
        Tokyo's G-CANS, whose main tank is 25x177x78m, also shows up on HN regularly. https://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/03/g-cans-tokyos-massive-underground-storm.html https://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/03/g-cans-tokyos-massive-...

by scrlk 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

kristianp 3y ago

Wow, I always assumed it was pumped far out to sea. Is it treated first?

bobthepanda 3y ago
Not currently; if the system is overwhelmed and the treatment plants start backing up then untreated water will be released in an emergency to prevent sewer from flooding up into the streets. They are currently spending 4.3B pounds to fix it with basically a giant holding tunnel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Tideway_Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Tideway_Tunnel

nextos 3y ago

Unfortunately, Thames Water infrastructure, once state-of-the-art, is really old and it shows. It needs some serious investment to bring it to modern standards. In Oxford, I have noticed raw sewage floating in the river several times. Things were pretty bad and authorities have sometimes issued a warning to potential swimmers. In the market town Thame, next to the eponymous river Thames, there were frequent leaks to the main street pavement. Really disgusting and sad as it is otherwise a very cool area.

teruakohatu 3y ago
Is this not normal state-of-affairs on most countries where rivers are part of the storm water system? In New Zealand where I am, rivers are frequently closed for swimming after very heavy rain. We have separated sewage and storm water but in heavy rain, storm water ends up getting into the sewage system which can overflow. Short of making a sewage system capable of handling the maximum flow (very expensive and not possible for an established city), or preventing any water getting into sewage (tricky to do this in a foolproof manner, as sewage needs to be vented otherwise gases build up and needs to be accessible) not much can be done about it beyond ensuring the sewage system is not overflowing for other reasons such as blockages.
- nextos 3y ago
  EU mandates storm retention tanks, i.e. a buffer, to minimize this problem. For instance, Madrid has built a massive 400,000 m3 tank and the problem is now solved. Lots of other main cities are doing / have done the same. Without those, in the event of heavy rain, there is not only raw sewage but also lots of contaminants from e.g. traffic that leak into rivers and kill everything there periodically.
  - teruakohatu 3y ago
    Wow, I looked it up. I guesstimated it would have a cylinder diameter of 160m and depth of 20m and I was pretty close at ~22m x ~190m given (its an irregular polyhedron). Its an underground lake. I guess its a question of scale, I was referring to small rivers that meander through city suburbs and are part of the stormwater network and may have a few overflows on occasion, rather than a city of Madrid which has a population about 60% of my entire country. In New Zealand stormwater to my knowledge is not treated. If anyone else is interested: https://www.canaldeisabelsegunda.es/en/-/tanques-de-tormentas-protectores-de-los-rios https://www.canaldeisabelsegunda.es/en/-/tanques-de-tormenta...
    - resolutebat 3y ago
      Tokyo's G-CANS, whose main tank is 25x177x78m, also shows up on HN regularly. https://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/03/g-cans-tokyos-massive-underground-storm.html https://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/03/g-cans-tokyos-massive-...