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Liquor is indeed ultra-processed and is the most harmful substance humans routinely ingest leading to ~180,000 premature deaths per year in the United States al

Liquor is indeed ultra-processed and is the most harmful substance humans routinely ingest leading to ~180,000 premature deaths per year in the United States alone. I would argue that distillation is the ne plus ultra of ultraprocessing. Sweetened fruit yogurts are also not good for you, stacking fructose on top of lactose for a sugar left-right combo that people aren't expecting. My favorite is when somebody shovels honey-sweetened granola into a tub of HFCS-sweetened strawberry-vanilla yogurt and chomps down on it mumbling "mmm healthy". edit: used to say "one of the most harmful"

Kirby64 3y ago
I think the point of GP is that the definition is wildly overbroad. What is actually the cause of the unhealthiness? You can't just lump EVERYTHING into ultra-processed or it becomes noise. Liquor and a chocolate bar are clearly not the same level of unhealthy.
- snakeyjake 3y ago
  I disagree that the definition is over broad. The definition is very well written and easy to understand. The NOVA Food Classification System Simplified: Category 1: Foods that look like what was pulled out of the ground, off the plant, or off the bone. Category 2: Category 1 items that have been squeezed, evaporated, boiled, or shaken Category 3: Things that are made up of things from categories 1 and 2 Category 4: Everything else (this is the ultra-processed category) Regions where residents who are socioeconomically similar to the US but mainly eat categories 1, 2, and 3 are (was going to say tend to be but it is an absolute) healthier. Regions where residents eat high proportions of category 4 substances (the US and a growing number of other nations) are obese and sick. The NOVA Food Classification System https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78/2021/07/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78...
  - Kirby64 3y ago
    I’ve read the classifications, and the problem is that almost any prepared food would automatically make it category 4. Can we agree that a chocolate bar and a Twinkie are wildly different levels of healthiness? It isn’t the category 4 definition that’s the issue. It’s the stuff in certain items within that category that is the issue, and identifying them is what matters.
    - snakeyjake 3y ago
      >Can we agree that a chocolate bar and a Twinkie are wildly different levels of healthiness? No. Sugar is sugar is sugar. Sugar is bad for humans. A twinkie excreted out of a factory is just as bad as artisanal small-batch free-range fair-trade chocolate that comes out of a Swiss boutique. It doesn't matter that the chocolate has more vitamin-D because of the sugar. Category 4, which does indeed include nearly all prepared food, should be avoided to the greatest extent possible.
      - Kirby64 3y ago
        Then we're at an impasse because that sort of black-and-white position is clearly untenable and leads to ridiculous policy decisions that are unhelpful to society. Chocolate bars or cocoa in general are shown to have anti-oxidant properties. If I get something with lots of cocoa %, it likely has substantially less sugar than a Twinkie, notwithstanding the difference in hyper-palatability between a Twinkie and a chocolate bar. Sugar is just sugar. It's not evil outright. It's certainly not bad for humans in any amount.

Kirby64 3y ago

I think the point of GP is that the definition is wildly overbroad. What is actually the cause of the unhealthiness? You can't just lump EVERYTHING into ultra-processed or it becomes noise. Liquor and a chocolate bar are clearly not the same level of unhealthy.

snakeyjake 3y ago
I disagree that the definition is over broad. The definition is very well written and easy to understand. The NOVA Food Classification System Simplified: Category 1: Foods that look like what was pulled out of the ground, off the plant, or off the bone. Category 2: Category 1 items that have been squeezed, evaporated, boiled, or shaken Category 3: Things that are made up of things from categories 1 and 2 Category 4: Everything else (this is the ultra-processed category) Regions where residents who are socioeconomically similar to the US but mainly eat categories 1, 2, and 3 are (was going to say tend to be but it is an absolute) healthier. Regions where residents eat high proportions of category 4 substances (the US and a growing number of other nations) are obese and sick. The NOVA Food Classification System https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78/2021/07/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78...
- Kirby64 3y ago
  I’ve read the classifications, and the problem is that almost any prepared food would automatically make it category 4. Can we agree that a chocolate bar and a Twinkie are wildly different levels of healthiness? It isn’t the category 4 definition that’s the issue. It’s the stuff in certain items within that category that is the issue, and identifying them is what matters.
  - snakeyjake 3y ago
    >Can we agree that a chocolate bar and a Twinkie are wildly different levels of healthiness? No. Sugar is sugar is sugar. Sugar is bad for humans. A twinkie excreted out of a factory is just as bad as artisanal small-batch free-range fair-trade chocolate that comes out of a Swiss boutique. It doesn't matter that the chocolate has more vitamin-D because of the sugar. Category 4, which does indeed include nearly all prepared food, should be avoided to the greatest extent possible.
    - Kirby64 3y ago
      Then we're at an impasse because that sort of black-and-white position is clearly untenable and leads to ridiculous policy decisions that are unhelpful to society. Chocolate bars or cocoa in general are shown to have anti-oxidant properties. If I get something with lots of cocoa %, it likely has substantially less sugar than a Twinkie, notwithstanding the difference in hyper-palatability between a Twinkie and a chocolate bar. Sugar is just sugar. It's not evil outright. It's certainly not bad for humans in any amount.