5 ms·

Why am I starting to see a lot of promotional statements within HN? Are there any bot or some army of manual labor around?

by sdo72 3y ago

andai 3y ago
I think mostly a lot of cool stuff is being launched lately. But if I were a tech company, I'd definitely have a HN Plan ;)
dotnet00 3y ago
Kagi just happens to be pretty popular here, it's how I found out about it.
- sdo72 3y ago
  I have tried Kagi and I don't find anything magical. And I see a lot of testaments saying how good Kagi is, and most of them aren't in any specific comparison.
  - dotnet00 3y ago
    For me just the ability to filter/downrank certain domains and the ability to rewrite urls (universally, without having a separate plugin setup on mobile devices) is a very specific example of what I like. Makes it easy to ensure that I'm always on old reddit and wikipedia with the better (older :p) layout. Also allowed me to clean up a lot of the results that I knew were from low quality domains, such as getting rid of pinterest since results from it almost never led to anything useful. I also enjoy the lenses, I hated how the Google results for recipes tended to only make already frustrating recipe sites even more frustrating to dig through. The small web lens is also very nice for when I'm already searching for a niche topic. Besides that, I also reflect the vague description of the search results seeming to be better. And of course on top of that, there's the lack of tracking and putting my money where my mouth is regarding preferring to pay for a good privacy preserving service.
  - lolinder 3y ago
    What exactly are you looking for in a testimonial? Do you want a side-by-side comparison of results or something? My experience has been that Kagi's customizations are the key selling point, allowing you to block and bump domains to meet your needs: * I have Wikipedia pinned, so if there's a Wikipedia article it's always the top result, whereas Google has lately started downweighting Wikipedia much of the time (as a simple example see COVID-19). * I have Pinterest blocked entirely, so I never see results from them. As an example, try "living room refurbishment ideas". * I have MDN upweighted, so it tends to rank higher than random people's blog posts for web dev queries.
    - sdo72 3y ago
      If you need specific domains, you can always search within that domain. With Chrome, you can even setup shortcut to search certain places like Wiki. Most features I can do within Google or Chrome, and many things are still better within Google search and sometimes being paired with Chrome browser.
      - lolinder 3y ago
        > If you need specific domains, you can always search within that domain. With Chrome, you can even setup shortcut to search certain places like Wiki. That's not the same thing as a pinned domain, though: just because I want Wikipedia or MDN to always surface if present doesn't mean that I'm not interested in what comes further down the page. Doing a domain filter requires me to do two searches to see the same content I'd get from a single Kagi search. > Most features I can do within Google or Chrome, and many things are still better within Google search and sometimes being paired with Chrome browser. If Google is satisfactory for you, that's great! I'm just sharing my own perspective, everyone's search habits are different.
- ziddoap 3y ago
  >Kagi just happens to be pretty popular here _Pretty_ popular? Outside of Rust, Kagi might have the most fanatic following of any topic on HN. Which, while I'm sure Kagi is very happy with, is really rather annoying as a someone who doesn't care for it. Every conversation search-adjacent is just comments of "I pay for Kagi and it was the best dollars I've ever spent".
  - dotnet00 3y ago
    Yeah that's fair, I can see how the gushing might be annoying to someone who isn't interested. I tend to just ignore or hide the posts I find very annoying, but I understand that isn't necessarily how everyone is.
  - mistercheph 3y ago
    Is every other search tool's complete failure to come close to Kagi in being useful, and marginalia in being interesting, a particular pain point for you for some reason?
    - ziddoap 3y ago
      >Is every other search tool's complete failure to come close to Kagi in being useful This is exactly the fanaticism I was referring to.
sdo72 3y ago
When I say this, I have some already voted down (you know who), and some voted up. If you notice, you will see Kagi keeps appearing on HN very often lately, and often there're people talk very good thing about Kagi. This clearly supports my suspicion here. I find that people often don't fully know how to search and blame Google for not having the feature. Google even implements things in the browser that people can take advantage.
- kristofferR 3y ago
  If people aren't smart/skilled enough to get good results with Google, yet get good results with Kagi, then Kagi is clearly a better product. People are just hyped about a new search engine dramatically improving their online search experience, we're not bots (or paid). Just check out some user histories.
freediver 3y ago
Kagi founder here. Also a long time HN user and as such I too share your concern that we get too much exposure here. I do not know what to say but that I am eternally grateful to HN, as it is what enabled Kagi's existance. We have no marketing budget and majority of our users come from HN, so I can confirm that the comments you see here are authentic.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- sdo72 3y ago
  Hi, I appreciate your response here. However, having no marketing budget and comments being authentic don't clear those Kagi related comments from being associated with Kagi.
  - bluish29 3y ago
    I would interpret "authentic" here to mean that they are coming from real and authentic HN users who happens to be kagi users. The intersection is probably high enough. A lot of HNers would have very positive views and comments about any particular thing, which does not mean they are associated with them.
  - ParetoOptimal 3y ago
    I have multiple comments on HN, Reddit, and Lemmy recommending Kagi with effusive praise and apologizing for sounding like a paid ad.
  - Zambyte 3y ago
    I use Kagi as my search engine, and GNU/Linux for my operating system. I think both people who use each of these like recommending them to people for the same reason: like like using it, and the greatest danger to not being able to use it is if no one else does, as that would cause it to cease. People recommend it because they genuinely think other people would enjoy it, but also selfishly because they want to continue to use it themselves.

Why am I starting to see a lot of promotional statements within HN? Are there any bot or some army of manual labor around?

by sdo72 3y ago

Why am I starting to see a lot of promotional statements within HN? Are there any bot or some army of manual labor around?

andai 3y ago

I think mostly a lot of cool stuff is being launched lately. But if I were a tech company, I'd definitely have a HN Plan ;)

dotnet00 3y ago

Kagi just happens to be pretty popular here, it's how I found out about it.

sdo72 3y ago
I have tried Kagi and I don't find anything magical. And I see a lot of testaments saying how good Kagi is, and most of them aren't in any specific comparison.
- dotnet00 3y ago
  For me just the ability to filter/downrank certain domains and the ability to rewrite urls (universally, without having a separate plugin setup on mobile devices) is a very specific example of what I like. Makes it easy to ensure that I'm always on old reddit and wikipedia with the better (older :p) layout. Also allowed me to clean up a lot of the results that I knew were from low quality domains, such as getting rid of pinterest since results from it almost never led to anything useful. I also enjoy the lenses, I hated how the Google results for recipes tended to only make already frustrating recipe sites even more frustrating to dig through. The small web lens is also very nice for when I'm already searching for a niche topic. Besides that, I also reflect the vague description of the search results seeming to be better. And of course on top of that, there's the lack of tracking and putting my money where my mouth is regarding preferring to pay for a good privacy preserving service.
- lolinder 3y ago
  What exactly are you looking for in a testimonial? Do you want a side-by-side comparison of results or something? My experience has been that Kagi's customizations are the key selling point, allowing you to block and bump domains to meet your needs: * I have Wikipedia pinned, so if there's a Wikipedia article it's always the top result, whereas Google has lately started downweighting Wikipedia much of the time (as a simple example see COVID-19). * I have Pinterest blocked entirely, so I never see results from them. As an example, try "living room refurbishment ideas". * I have MDN upweighted, so it tends to rank higher than random people's blog posts for web dev queries.
  - sdo72 3y ago
    If you need specific domains, you can always search within that domain. With Chrome, you can even setup shortcut to search certain places like Wiki. Most features I can do within Google or Chrome, and many things are still better within Google search and sometimes being paired with Chrome browser.
    - lolinder 3y ago
      > If you need specific domains, you can always search within that domain. With Chrome, you can even setup shortcut to search certain places like Wiki. That's not the same thing as a pinned domain, though: just because I want Wikipedia or MDN to always surface if present doesn't mean that I'm not interested in what comes further down the page. Doing a domain filter requires me to do two searches to see the same content I'd get from a single Kagi search. > Most features I can do within Google or Chrome, and many things are still better within Google search and sometimes being paired with Chrome browser. If Google is satisfactory for you, that's great! I'm just sharing my own perspective, everyone's search habits are different.
ziddoap 3y ago
>Kagi just happens to be pretty popular here _Pretty_ popular? Outside of Rust, Kagi might have the most fanatic following of any topic on HN. Which, while I'm sure Kagi is very happy with, is really rather annoying as a someone who doesn't care for it. Every conversation search-adjacent is just comments of "I pay for Kagi and it was the best dollars I've ever spent".
- dotnet00 3y ago
  Yeah that's fair, I can see how the gushing might be annoying to someone who isn't interested. I tend to just ignore or hide the posts I find very annoying, but I understand that isn't necessarily how everyone is.
- mistercheph 3y ago
  Is every other search tool's complete failure to come close to Kagi in being useful, and marginalia in being interesting, a particular pain point for you for some reason?
  - ziddoap 3y ago
    >Is every other search tool's complete failure to come close to Kagi in being useful This is exactly the fanaticism I was referring to.

sdo72 3y ago

When I say this, I have some already voted down (you know who), and some voted up. If you notice, you will see Kagi keeps appearing on HN very often lately, and often there're people talk very good thing about Kagi. This clearly supports my suspicion here. I find that people often don't fully know how to search and blame Google for not having the feature. Google even implements things in the browser that people can take advantage.

kristofferR 3y ago
If people aren't smart/skilled enough to get good results with Google, yet get good results with Kagi, then Kagi is clearly a better product. People are just hyped about a new search engine dramatically improving their online search experience, we're not bots (or paid). Just check out some user histories.

freediver 3y ago

Kagi founder here. Also a long time HN user and as such I too share your concern that we get too much exposure here. I do not know what to say but that I am eternally grateful to HN, as it is what enabled Kagi's existance. We have no marketing budget and majority of our users come from HN, so I can confirm that the comments you see here are authentic.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
sdo72 3y ago
Hi, I appreciate your response here. However, having no marketing budget and comments being authentic don't clear those Kagi related comments from being associated with Kagi.
- bluish29 3y ago
  I would interpret "authentic" here to mean that they are coming from real and authentic HN users who happens to be kagi users. The intersection is probably high enough. A lot of HNers would have very positive views and comments about any particular thing, which does not mean they are associated with them.
- ParetoOptimal 3y ago
  I have multiple comments on HN, Reddit, and Lemmy recommending Kagi with effusive praise and apologizing for sounding like a paid ad.
- Zambyte 3y ago
  I use Kagi as my search engine, and GNU/Linux for my operating system. I think both people who use each of these like recommending them to people for the same reason: like like using it, and the greatest danger to not being able to use it is if no one else does, as that would cause it to cease. People recommend it because they genuinely think other people would enjoy it, but also selfishly because they want to continue to use it themselves.