4 ms·

Windows 8 is the natural successor to Win7 and XP. It's the next version of the most popular desktop OS in the world. As with Windows 7 and OSX, it should run w

Windows 8 is the natural successor to Win7 and XP. It's the next version of the most popular desktop OS in the world. As with Windows 7 and OSX, it should run whatever the hell the machine's owner wants it to. iOS is a locked-down, consistent, homogeneous user experience on specialty devices that should not be and are not marketed as replacements for computers. Apple Store employees will specifically advise against purchasing an iPad as a primary computer. If Apple tried to tell me what I can and cannot run on OSX, I'd be pissed. On mobile, I currently have a choice between superior UX (iOS) and freedom (Android), which are at this stage in the game somewhat mutually exclusive (part of the iPhone's appeal is that There Is One And Only One Right Way To Do It). For the record, I run Android, but I still want to the option to select a higher quality product if I'm willing to sacrifice what Android does better (turn by turn directions and physical keyboard on the Droid 3).

esrauch 15y ago
> that should not be and are not marketed as replacements for computers. Interestingly several of my non-technical friends have taken on iPads as full time replacements for laptops. They only used them to read the news, facebook or watch netflix the iPad does literally everything that they previously had laptops for. > If Apple tried to tell me what I can and cannot run on OSX, I'd be pissed. I think the distinction that Microsoft is going for here is Win8 arm = tablets = iOS, Win8 x86 = laptops = OSX. By your argument there should be no problem with them locking it down then.
- jack-r-abbit 15y ago
  The idea that an iPad can perform all the functions that some people are (under) using a laptop for doesn't mean that an iPad is an adequate replacement for a computer. They should not be marketed as such.
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    It all depends on what you use your computer for. For me it wouldn't be an adequate replacement - I like to work on my code offline and run development servers of my computer, but it's easy to imagine a simple setup where I log on to a remote machine through the tablet and work there.
    - jack-r-abbit 15y ago
      I'm pretty sure we are agreeing here. If they don't do everything a computer does, they are not a replacement for a computer. If they do everything you do on your computer then they are a replacement for your computer.
- superuser2 15y ago
  Sorry, I misinterpreted that. In that case, I have no more problem with Microsoft deciding what runs on a Windows tablet than Toyota deciding what runs on its car computers, Sony on its stereos, Panasonic on its TVs, Black & Decker on its toasters, etc. I don't think it's productive to eliminate the possibility of coherent, homogeneous UIs. Certainly consumers should have choices, but iPhone exactly as Apple intended it should one of those choices; Microsoft should be allowed to play that game too.
- contextfree 15y ago
  Nope, all four quadrants will be populated. There will be ARM/Windows RT tablets, ARM laptops, x86/64/Windows 8 tablets, and x86 laptops.
0x0 15y ago
WinRT is to Windows 8, as iOS is to OS X.
- xemoka 15y ago
  And so it begins... I believe you mean Windows RT [1] and not WinRT [2]. Both x86 and ARM processors can use WinRT (metro interface) however Windows RT is the flavour of windows that only runs on ARM processors and only supports third party apps using WinRT [3]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Runtime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Runtime [3] http://www.i-programmer.info/news/177-windows-8/4079-three-windows-8-editions-clarify-the-winrt-position.html http://www.i-programmer.info/news/177-windows-8/4079-three-w...
  - 0x0 15y ago
    From the wikipedia article: Windows RT (RT stands for Runtime) ... Not to be confused with Windows Runtime Great choice of names, there.
dm8 15y ago
That doesn't mean you should lockdown all the browser apps just to ensure your control. Both iOS and WP8 allow all sorts of apps to be run. Then why not another browser? AAPL's insistence for banning flash was justified. Flash has always been memory hog and battery killer but not allowing non-webkit browsers is foolish.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- loumf 15y ago
  Browsers are totally allowed -- there are alternative browsers in the iOS App Store right now (I use Atomic). What is not allowed is to download code and execute it, which makes it impossible to write your own JavaScript interpreter, and forces you to use UIWebView to render HTML. You can't even just use webkit on your own -- you have to use the one on the device (by using UIWebView). FireFox would also not be able to have plugins for similar reasons. Atomic is better than Safari because it allows User-agent switching, view source and some other nice features, all of which doesn't require them to interpret JavaScript with their own code.
  - wvenable 15y ago
    I wish any browser on my iPhone would support text reflow. Webkit on Android does it. Opera does it. But you can't fix that without putting in a new rendering engine.
    - Terretta 15y ago
      Use iCab and try making a reflow widget. There's a text size and reset layout widget already, so seems like it might be possible.
  - krakensden 15y ago
    My understanding is that the alternative browsers on iOS aren't really browsers- they're reskins of the iOS' webkit. You can't, for instance, plug in your own Javascript interpreter. Opera mini takes a different tack, doing much of the work on their servers and forwarding it to the client. But a full replacement for Safari, like a fork, Firefox, or Chrome, is not allowed.

esrauch 15y ago

> that should not be and are not marketed as replacements for computers. Interestingly several of my non-technical friends have taken on iPads as full time replacements for laptops. They only used them to read the news, facebook or watch netflix the iPad does literally everything that they previously had laptops for. > If Apple tried to tell me what I can and cannot run on OSX, I'd be pissed. I think the distinction that Microsoft is going for here is Win8 arm = tablets = iOS, Win8 x86 = laptops = OSX. By your argument there should be no problem with them locking it down then.

jack-r-abbit 15y ago
The idea that an iPad can perform all the functions that some people are (under) using a laptop for doesn't mean that an iPad is an adequate replacement for a computer. They should not be marketed as such.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  It all depends on what you use your computer for. For me it wouldn't be an adequate replacement - I like to work on my code offline and run development servers of my computer, but it's easy to imagine a simple setup where I log on to a remote machine through the tablet and work there.
  - jack-r-abbit 15y ago
    I'm pretty sure we are agreeing here. If they don't do everything a computer does, they are not a replacement for a computer. If they do everything you do on your computer then they are a replacement for your computer.
superuser2 15y ago
Sorry, I misinterpreted that. In that case, I have no more problem with Microsoft deciding what runs on a Windows tablet than Toyota deciding what runs on its car computers, Sony on its stereos, Panasonic on its TVs, Black & Decker on its toasters, etc. I don't think it's productive to eliminate the possibility of coherent, homogeneous UIs. Certainly consumers should have choices, but iPhone exactly as Apple intended it should one of those choices; Microsoft should be allowed to play that game too.
contextfree 15y ago
Nope, all four quadrants will be populated. There will be ARM/Windows RT tablets, ARM laptops, x86/64/Windows 8 tablets, and x86 laptops.

0x0 15y ago

WinRT is to Windows 8, as iOS is to OS X.

xemoka 15y ago
And so it begins... I believe you mean Windows RT [1] and not WinRT [2]. Both x86 and ARM processors can use WinRT (metro interface) however Windows RT is the flavour of windows that only runs on ARM processors and only supports third party apps using WinRT [3]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Runtime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Runtime [3] http://www.i-programmer.info/news/177-windows-8/4079-three-windows-8-editions-clarify-the-winrt-position.html http://www.i-programmer.info/news/177-windows-8/4079-three-w...
- 0x0 15y ago
  From the wikipedia article: Windows RT (RT stands for Runtime) ... Not to be confused with Windows Runtime Great choice of names, there.

dm8 15y ago

That doesn't mean you should lockdown all the browser apps just to ensure your control. Both iOS and WP8 allow all sorts of apps to be run. Then why not another browser? AAPL's insistence for banning flash was justified. Flash has always been memory hog and battery killer but not allowing non-webkit browsers is foolish.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
loumf 15y ago
Browsers are totally allowed -- there are alternative browsers in the iOS App Store right now (I use Atomic). What is not allowed is to download code and execute it, which makes it impossible to write your own JavaScript interpreter, and forces you to use UIWebView to render HTML. You can't even just use webkit on your own -- you have to use the one on the device (by using UIWebView). FireFox would also not be able to have plugins for similar reasons. Atomic is better than Safari because it allows User-agent switching, view source and some other nice features, all of which doesn't require them to interpret JavaScript with their own code.
- wvenable 15y ago
  I wish any browser on my iPhone would support text reflow. Webkit on Android does it. Opera does it. But you can't fix that without putting in a new rendering engine.
  - Terretta 15y ago
    Use iCab and try making a reflow widget. There's a text size and reset layout widget already, so seems like it might be possible.
- krakensden 15y ago
  My understanding is that the alternative browsers on iOS aren't really browsers- they're reskins of the iOS' webkit. You can't, for instance, plug in your own Javascript interpreter. Opera mini takes a different tack, doing much of the work on their servers and forwarding it to the client. But a full replacement for Safari, like a fork, Firefox, or Chrome, is not allowed.