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My main source of the idea comes from Timothy Snyder, who argues primarily based on timing. European countries continued wars after WW2, just their imperial war
by epistasis 3y ago
My main source of the idea comes from Timothy Snyder, who argues primarily based on timing. European countries continued wars after WW2, just their imperial wars, against the people that they didn't think deserved having national self determination.
And as the big maritime empires lost an imperial war, that's when they joined the EU. The Dutch and French lose their colonies, time to join up. UK lost their empire later, then joined in the 1970s.
(BTW, I appreciate the questioning of sources, and wish that I had said more at the start of my comments.)
- RandomLensman 3y agoThanks. The French lost most of their colonies later than the concept/creation European Coal and Steel Community, for example, and the UK joined much later. My impression was that in the late 1940s/early 1950s some of the ideas around overcoming the old animosity between France and Germany were genuine (at least from listening to people around at the time). On some of the later moves I have less insight into - perhaps it was a mix and/or varying motives?
- p_l 3y agoSome of the ideas were related to avoiding another Treaty of Versailles issues with Ruhr and other border regions, and stopping effective implementation of Morgenthau plan (which had inane idea of effective depopulation by starvation and total destruction of industry in Germany, leaving a small pastoral population) that was ongoing, while avoiding considerable opposition from population to any idea where germany might endanger others again.