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Id like to know who is this genius who invented the concept of non binding referendum, like lets spend some public money to have an election, but if we don’t li

Id like to know who is this genius who invented the concept of non binding referendum, like lets spend some public money to have an election, but if we don’t like the results then let’s do like nothing happened, if a referendum was not enough to let those in charge understand that the population was against this expansion, then sabotage is the only viable option, regardless of politicians trying to let them pass for some anarchists Because democracy needs to be accounted for, despite the political servants of capital

ben_w 3y ago
Brexit was a theoretically non-binding referendum, the politicians proceeded with it for much the reasons you give — but it turned out that even amongst the MPs, a majority opposed each and every specific and detailed form that they could suggest for what it might look like in practice, including both "cancelling it" and "ask the people in another referendum": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_votes_on_Brexit#First_Round_of_Indicative_Votes_(27_March_2019) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_votes_on_Brexit#... That kind of deadlock is a good reason for them to be non-binding. In this case Westminster "solved" it by replacing the Prime Minister with a pathological liar who convinced enough people that everything was good for long enough to get something done before his lies finally caught up with him, which isn't really good governance.
- lnxg33k1 3y ago
  That was just inexperience with referendums from UK politics, if I remember correctly it was their first one in their history, right? The referendum was very generic, while in this case it was very specific, do you want the gigafactory to extend at the cost of the forest? Also in Italy when we do referendums they have multiple questions that divide the bigger issue in smaller problems, so that overall you can build the solution quite "representatively" What the Brexit referendum should have been is what was voted on parliamentary votes afterwards on how to implement it
  - ben_w 3y ago
    > if I remember correctly it was their first one in their history, right? Third in my lifetime, I also saw the Scottish independence referendum and the "should we replace FPTP voting with something else?" referendum. There was also a referendum about the predecessor to the EU, a bit before my time.
    - lnxg33k1 3y ago
      Ah then I guess it was just not done well, really too broad/complex of a topic for a one-shot question imho tbh

ben_w 3y ago

Brexit was a theoretically non-binding referendum, the politicians proceeded with it for much the reasons you give — but it turned out that even amongst the MPs, a majority opposed each and every specific and detailed form that they could suggest for what it might look like in practice, including both "cancelling it" and "ask the people in another referendum": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_votes_on_Brexit#First_Round_of_Indicative_Votes_(27_March_2019) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_votes_on_Brexit#... That kind of deadlock is a good reason for them to be non-binding. In this case Westminster "solved" it by replacing the Prime Minister with a pathological liar who convinced enough people that everything was good for long enough to get something done before his lies finally caught up with him, which isn't really good governance.

lnxg33k1 3y ago
That was just inexperience with referendums from UK politics, if I remember correctly it was their first one in their history, right? The referendum was very generic, while in this case it was very specific, do you want the gigafactory to extend at the cost of the forest? Also in Italy when we do referendums they have multiple questions that divide the bigger issue in smaller problems, so that overall you can build the solution quite "representatively" What the Brexit referendum should have been is what was voted on parliamentary votes afterwards on how to implement it
- ben_w 3y ago
  > if I remember correctly it was their first one in their history, right? Third in my lifetime, I also saw the Scottish independence referendum and the "should we replace FPTP voting with something else?" referendum. There was also a referendum about the predecessor to the EU, a bit before my time.
  - lnxg33k1 3y ago
    Ah then I guess it was just not done well, really too broad/complex of a topic for a one-shot question imho tbh