3 ms·

> We have trouble finding good engineers to hire > unrealistically high salaries That's expected if you don't want to pay the salaries your candidates want. Ad

> We have trouble finding good engineers to hire > unrealistically high salaries That's expected if you don't want to pay the salaries your candidates want. Admitting to not being able to find qualified workers is admitting fundamental incompetence as an employer and as a business. Hiring and retaining workers is the foundation of any business that employs people. Haven't it struck you that maybe you are unrealistic about salaries if you are having trouble hiring?

hirako2000 3y ago
This. Of course the comment is not just paradoxal, it's contradictory. Behind a basically bias mind, blinded even by the irresistible desire to basically pay little, bank fat profits, and do nothing. It's an amazing time to be alive. To see how broader access to Information turning against those who used to think the asymmetry would last forever.
- oytis 3y ago
  It's really funny to see both "times have changed" and "we can't find anyone" in one comment. And it really summarises the attitude of business post-covid. "Doing more with less" is just childish if you think about it. I'm going to do what I like, and there are not going to be any consequences. Oh, there are consequences? That definitely not because what I did.
cj 3y ago
The reality is many people are taking pay cuts especially on the junior side of the spectrum. People were hiring devs straight out of bootcamps with zero experience for $160k a couple years ago. Sorry but I can’t hire someone and match their previous salary (from a company that fired them) with a total of 2 yrs experience.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  Consider the same line of thinking for other cost centers of your business. Would a restaurant say they're having trouble finding produce just because they don't want to pay the prices asked for? Would a sawmill say they're having trouble finding lumber when they don't want to pay the prices asked. If the developers you want to hire cannot produce enough for your company to make a profit at the salary levels they are asking, this is a hint that your company is not profitable enough to continue functioning. That happens sometimes when margins get thinner. The equation between what customers are willing to pay for the work, and what profit the company desires, and what salaries the workforce demands for doing the work, doesn't give a positive result anymore. So the business model doesn't work anymore. Otherwise you'd hire them right? If the company will make a profit from their work. Or are you foregoing profits out of spite? Edit: I say all this because I used to be incompetent at hiring and my business at the time suffered as a consequence. My mistake was that I was looking to hire people through networks of friends and family, instead of plain old job ads. Sounds like a dumb mistake, but as mentioned I was incompetent. Once I started publishing ads I had no problem finding a lot of good candidates. Hiring and retaining employees is a skill, the most important skill of a business owner.
  - cj 3y ago
    > Would a restaurant say they're having trouble finding produce just because they don't want to pay the prices asked for? Yes, if there were another produce supplier offering half the price for a better product. I was probably wording my comments too strongly in this thread. It's not like we can't find anyone to hire. Just that we typically can find really good people if we spend just a tad bit longer rather than jumping on the first decent candidate. In 2021, you basically had to jump on the first decent candidate because if you didn't they'd be snatched up by another company within days. In this market, you can afford to hire slower, talk to more people, and find the right fit. Also, having hired and worked with dozens of people, I've seen zero correlation between salary and performance + employee retention. Paying someone more salary is not at all correlated with higher performance or higher employee retention (once you're above the 50th percentile). Everyone at our company is above 50th percentile in salary benchmarks, some people are at 70th or 90th percentile, and their performance + retention is no different than people paid 50th percentile. TLDR: Throwing money at a problem usually doesn't fix it. Same applies in hiring. Throwing money at people doesn't make them perform better or stay at your company longer, once you're paying at least 50th percentile salaries.

hirako2000 3y ago

This. Of course the comment is not just paradoxal, it's contradictory. Behind a basically bias mind, blinded even by the irresistible desire to basically pay little, bank fat profits, and do nothing. It's an amazing time to be alive. To see how broader access to Information turning against those who used to think the asymmetry would last forever.

oytis 3y ago
It's really funny to see both "times have changed" and "we can't find anyone" in one comment. And it really summarises the attitude of business post-covid. "Doing more with less" is just childish if you think about it. I'm going to do what I like, and there are not going to be any consequences. Oh, there are consequences? That definitely not because what I did.

cj 3y ago

The reality is many people are taking pay cuts especially on the junior side of the spectrum. People were hiring devs straight out of bootcamps with zero experience for $160k a couple years ago. Sorry but I can’t hire someone and match their previous salary (from a company that fired them) with a total of 2 yrs experience.

carlosjobim 3y ago
Consider the same line of thinking for other cost centers of your business. Would a restaurant say they're having trouble finding produce just because they don't want to pay the prices asked for? Would a sawmill say they're having trouble finding lumber when they don't want to pay the prices asked. If the developers you want to hire cannot produce enough for your company to make a profit at the salary levels they are asking, this is a hint that your company is not profitable enough to continue functioning. That happens sometimes when margins get thinner. The equation between what customers are willing to pay for the work, and what profit the company desires, and what salaries the workforce demands for doing the work, doesn't give a positive result anymore. So the business model doesn't work anymore. Otherwise you'd hire them right? If the company will make a profit from their work. Or are you foregoing profits out of spite? Edit: I say all this because I used to be incompetent at hiring and my business at the time suffered as a consequence. My mistake was that I was looking to hire people through networks of friends and family, instead of plain old job ads. Sounds like a dumb mistake, but as mentioned I was incompetent. Once I started publishing ads I had no problem finding a lot of good candidates. Hiring and retaining employees is a skill, the most important skill of a business owner.
- cj 3y ago
  > Would a restaurant say they're having trouble finding produce just because they don't want to pay the prices asked for? Yes, if there were another produce supplier offering half the price for a better product. I was probably wording my comments too strongly in this thread. It's not like we can't find anyone to hire. Just that we typically can find really good people if we spend just a tad bit longer rather than jumping on the first decent candidate. In 2021, you basically had to jump on the first decent candidate because if you didn't they'd be snatched up by another company within days. In this market, you can afford to hire slower, talk to more people, and find the right fit. Also, having hired and worked with dozens of people, I've seen zero correlation between salary and performance + employee retention. Paying someone more salary is not at all correlated with higher performance or higher employee retention (once you're above the 50th percentile). Everyone at our company is above 50th percentile in salary benchmarks, some people are at 70th or 90th percentile, and their performance + retention is no different than people paid 50th percentile. TLDR: Throwing money at a problem usually doesn't fix it. Same applies in hiring. Throwing money at people doesn't make them perform better or stay at your company longer, once you're paying at least 50th percentile salaries.