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It's working for the people that live in the EU. This is another point that I think Americans miss sometimes - "good for the businesses" is seen as the end goa

It's working for the people that live in the EU. This is another point that I think Americans miss sometimes - "good for the businesses" is seen as the end goal, and it is assumed that people will benefit in some trickle-down way from that. The goal for all of this is for people to have good lives. Supporting businesses may or may not be the right way of doing that, but we shouldn't lose sight of the end goal.

ryandrake 3y ago
Simping for big business is a favorite American pastime. Somehow, so many Americans have been convinced that they're actually business owners, just having a set-back and temporarily working for $20/hr stocking shelves or selling cars. But in their hearts they are actually tycoons, and anything that hurts business surely hurts themselves!
- rkangel 3y ago
  Quote from the West Wing: "That is the problem with the American Dream. Makes everyone concerned for the day they're gonna be rich."
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    I used to trot this URL[1] out a lot, but it's a pretty old survey now. In 2003, 39% of Americans believed that they either were(19%) or one day would be(20%) among the top 1% of earners. 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/12/opinion/the-triumph-of-hope-over-self-interest.html https://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/12/opinion/the-triumph-of-ho...
    - roenxi 3y ago
      They might not be that wrong Article is paywalled, but I'd expect that a double digit % US citizens are in the top 1% globally. They're pretty wealthy. 1% is like 80 million people. That could translate to around 10% of the US. And the names of those 10% change as people earn more or less through their lives.
      - ryandrake 3y ago
        Sorry, it used to be non-paywalled. If I recall correctly, the question was scoped to the USA, so indeed 39% of USA people believed they were or would be in the top 1% of the USA.
- welshwelsh 3y ago
  I'm skeptical of this interpretation. There is a middle ground between people making $20 an hour and business tycoons. Policies that help big business might not trickle down to people stocking shelves, but they often advantage middle class people. For example, the US is an excellent place for software engineers. There are far more of them and they make far higher salaries than their European counterparts. Is it unreasonable to believe that American policies that empower big tech companies also benefit a developer making $250k at Google, even though he does not own the company? What if policies that benefit the top 1% did, in fact, trickle down to the top 30% of Americans, at the expense of the bottom 70%? What if this bloc of people was organized enough to win elections and control politics without relying on people delusionally voting against their own interests?
- buzzert 3y ago
  > so many Americans have been convinced that they're actually business owners In many cases, this is true. Tesla, for example, paid their early factory workers with stock in the company. As a result, many of the factory workers who worked on the Model 3 assembly line are now millionaires. The US's relatively lax taxation/regulation on equity compensation is one of the reasons why tech workers in the US get paid so much more. Since they're actually literally part owners of the company, this might explain why they're usually more productive as well.
deanishe 3y ago
> point that I think Americans miss sometimes Definitely. Americans are very quick to prioritise the needs of businesses over those of people. In Europe, the people come first.

ryandrake 3y ago

Simping for big business is a favorite American pastime. Somehow, so many Americans have been convinced that they're actually business owners, just having a set-back and temporarily working for $20/hr stocking shelves or selling cars. But in their hearts they are actually tycoons, and anything that hurts business surely hurts themselves!

rkangel 3y ago
Quote from the West Wing: "That is the problem with the American Dream. Makes everyone concerned for the day they're gonna be rich."
- ryandrake 3y ago
  I used to trot this URL[1] out a lot, but it's a pretty old survey now. In 2003, 39% of Americans believed that they either were(19%) or one day would be(20%) among the top 1% of earners. 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/12/opinion/the-triumph-of-hope-over-self-interest.html https://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/12/opinion/the-triumph-of-ho...
  - roenxi 3y ago
    They might not be that wrong Article is paywalled, but I'd expect that a double digit % US citizens are in the top 1% globally. They're pretty wealthy. 1% is like 80 million people. That could translate to around 10% of the US. And the names of those 10% change as people earn more or less through their lives.
    - ryandrake 3y ago
      Sorry, it used to be non-paywalled. If I recall correctly, the question was scoped to the USA, so indeed 39% of USA people believed they were or would be in the top 1% of the USA.
welshwelsh 3y ago
I'm skeptical of this interpretation. There is a middle ground between people making $20 an hour and business tycoons. Policies that help big business might not trickle down to people stocking shelves, but they often advantage middle class people. For example, the US is an excellent place for software engineers. There are far more of them and they make far higher salaries than their European counterparts. Is it unreasonable to believe that American policies that empower big tech companies also benefit a developer making $250k at Google, even though he does not own the company? What if policies that benefit the top 1% did, in fact, trickle down to the top 30% of Americans, at the expense of the bottom 70%? What if this bloc of people was organized enough to win elections and control politics without relying on people delusionally voting against their own interests?
buzzert 3y ago
> so many Americans have been convinced that they're actually business owners In many cases, this is true. Tesla, for example, paid their early factory workers with stock in the company. As a result, many of the factory workers who worked on the Model 3 assembly line are now millionaires. The US's relatively lax taxation/regulation on equity compensation is one of the reasons why tech workers in the US get paid so much more. Since they're actually literally part owners of the company, this might explain why they're usually more productive as well.

deanishe 3y ago

> point that I think Americans miss sometimes Definitely. Americans are very quick to prioritise the needs of businesses over those of people. In Europe, the people come first.