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Some people who are against abortion do not consider a fetus as part of the mother's body.

hef19898 3y ago
As George Clooney so brilliantly pointed out in Three Kings: Necessity and Priorities. The EU has a lot stuff on their plate, from Ukraine to Gaza. One thing at a time. And yes, it seems that for the time being, abortion is not really ubder threat in the EU at the moment, so they can focus on other things. I applaud France for doing this, and hope the EU, and more member nations, do follow suite in the future.
throwaway11460 3y ago
Well then they should understand that a mother might choose - or be forced - to stop supporting the fetus with her body. It's not like they're cutting the fetus open, they're cutting the mother open (or giving her drugs). They might say - it killed the fetus. Yes. Sometimes people disconnect the life support.
- flanked-evergl 3y ago
  That is surely something you can take up in discussion with people who are anti-abortion, but back to my original question: Why can't the EU Declaration of Human Rights not just be amended to include a right to abortion?
  - throwaway11460 3y ago
    As I said, to prevent states, courts and lawmakers from claiming that all other body autonomy rights have to be explicitly listed. It's general language for a reason. The declaration is good as it is, IMHO your suggestion would lead to weakening it.
    - flanked-evergl 3y ago
      Some people who are against abortion do not consider a fetus as part of the mother's body, so this is not unambiguously an issue of bodily autonomy. Should the declaration not at least be amended to state that a fetus is part of a mother's body then?
      - throwaway11460 3y ago
        I don't think it's necessary. Abortion is disconnecting the fetus from the mother - that's definitely related to the bodily autonomy of the mother, regardless of whether the fetus itself is considered part of it or not. I myself am not sure if I consider the fetus a part of the mother or not. There definitely is a point when it is no longer a part of the mother and I don't think it's only at birth. But regardless of the exact transition point, the mother has the right to decide what is connected to her body.

hef19898 3y ago

As George Clooney so brilliantly pointed out in Three Kings: Necessity and Priorities. The EU has a lot stuff on their plate, from Ukraine to Gaza. One thing at a time. And yes, it seems that for the time being, abortion is not really ubder threat in the EU at the moment, so they can focus on other things. I applaud France for doing this, and hope the EU, and more member nations, do follow suite in the future.

throwaway11460 3y ago

Well then they should understand that a mother might choose - or be forced - to stop supporting the fetus with her body. It's not like they're cutting the fetus open, they're cutting the mother open (or giving her drugs). They might say - it killed the fetus. Yes. Sometimes people disconnect the life support.

flanked-evergl 3y ago
That is surely something you can take up in discussion with people who are anti-abortion, but back to my original question: Why can't the EU Declaration of Human Rights not just be amended to include a right to abortion?
- throwaway11460 3y ago
  As I said, to prevent states, courts and lawmakers from claiming that all other body autonomy rights have to be explicitly listed. It's general language for a reason. The declaration is good as it is, IMHO your suggestion would lead to weakening it.
  - flanked-evergl 3y ago
    Some people who are against abortion do not consider a fetus as part of the mother's body, so this is not unambiguously an issue of bodily autonomy. Should the declaration not at least be amended to state that a fetus is part of a mother's body then?
    - throwaway11460 3y ago
      I don't think it's necessary. Abortion is disconnecting the fetus from the mother - that's definitely related to the bodily autonomy of the mother, regardless of whether the fetus itself is considered part of it or not. I myself am not sure if I consider the fetus a part of the mother or not. There definitely is a point when it is no longer a part of the mother and I don't think it's only at birth. But regardless of the exact transition point, the mother has the right to decide what is connected to her body.