3 ms·

> to subsidise their national networks Do you have a source? That's an extraordinary claim, the sort of thing I'd expect to find in Nigel Farage's bag of lies

domh 3y ago
Here's one article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2019/08/15/almost-all-british-train-lines-are-now-owned-by-other-eu-countries/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2019/08/15/almost-a... I believe it's a little out of date now, as some of the lines have been renationalised due to failures of the private sector.
drcongo 3y ago
It's not an EU-bash, it's true. We sold off the railways to private companies, most of which are actually the nationalised rail operators of other countries.
pjc50 3y ago
"to subsidise their national networks" is a framing, but "for profit" is the simple truth of train operators in a privatized system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arriva_UK_Trains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arriva_UK_Trains : subsidiary of DB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C2c https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C2c : subsidiary of Trenitalia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avanti_West_Coast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avanti_West_Coast : part owned by Trenitalia And so on. (Don't forget that the real profit ends up with the "train landlords", the ROSCOs: https://www.leasinglife.com/features/who-owns-the-trains-roscos-and-repatriated-profits/?cf-view https://www.leasinglife.com/features/who-owns-the-trains-ros... ; all of them are parented in Luxembourg for tax reasons)
dspillett 3y ago
It is effectively true. Many European firms own chunks of the rail franchises in the UK and charge a shed load more than their local rail services are able to. Similar to the power franchises with the likes of EDF owning a large stake and charging a lot more here than they can get away with in France. It isn't an EU thing, though it has at times been something Farage and his ilk have banged on about as if it is an EU thing, it is the way the Tories setup the privatisation of the railways (running them into the ground first as part of making the case for taking them away from the public purse (which it isn't as there are still significant subsidies involved)).
- blibble 3y ago
  > it is the way the Tories setup the privatisation of the railways which they did to implement... EU Directive 91/440 ("First Railway Package") yes, the UK tended to gold plate EU regs, but the spark was the EU

domh 3y ago

Here's one article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2019/08/15/almost-all-british-train-lines-are-now-owned-by-other-eu-countries/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/davekeating/2019/08/15/almost-a... I believe it's a little out of date now, as some of the lines have been renationalised due to failures of the private sector.

drcongo 3y ago

It's not an EU-bash, it's true. We sold off the railways to private companies, most of which are actually the nationalised rail operators of other countries.

pjc50 3y ago

"to subsidise their national networks" is a framing, but "for profit" is the simple truth of train operators in a privatized system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arriva_UK_Trains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arriva_UK_Trains : subsidiary of DB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C2c https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C2c : subsidiary of Trenitalia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avanti_West_Coast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avanti_West_Coast : part owned by Trenitalia And so on. (Don't forget that the real profit ends up with the "train landlords", the ROSCOs: https://www.leasinglife.com/features/who-owns-the-trains-roscos-and-repatriated-profits/?cf-view https://www.leasinglife.com/features/who-owns-the-trains-ros... ; all of them are parented in Luxembourg for tax reasons)

dspillett 3y ago

It is effectively true. Many European firms own chunks of the rail franchises in the UK and charge a shed load more than their local rail services are able to. Similar to the power franchises with the likes of EDF owning a large stake and charging a lot more here than they can get away with in France. It isn't an EU thing, though it has at times been something Farage and his ilk have banged on about as if it is an EU thing, it is the way the Tories setup the privatisation of the railways (running them into the ground first as part of making the case for taking them away from the public purse (which it isn't as there are still significant subsidies involved)).

blibble 3y ago
> it is the way the Tories setup the privatisation of the railways which they did to implement... EU Directive 91/440 ("First Railway Package") yes, the UK tended to gold plate EU regs, but the spark was the EU