4 ms·

There are many facts that you aren't allowed to state in the west, including ones which would likely cause you trouble at TSA.

n4r9 3y ago
Could you give examples? I can think of some cases where a controversial interpretation of the evidence will get you in trouble, but not well-established facts in the realm of "this historical event did in fact occur".
- sandspar 3y ago
  If you go back to before Jeffrey Epstein was exposed, you would likely face high level suppression if you made a public accusation of Prince Andrew. Many accusations of sexual assault were suppressed before they became believed during #MeToo. Courtney Love publicly warned about Harvey Weinstein in 2005, implying that his behavior was widely known for decades before he was finally arrested. We can talk about it now, but if a young actress had accused him in 2010, for example, she would have been suppressed. It's almost certain that there are other things like this going on right now. We just haven't heard about them yet. In other words, within our lifetimes we will almost certainly learn, "In 2024, they did..." and we're not aware of it now.
  - n4r9 3y ago
    Well sure, but Prince Andrew conducting sexual abuse isn't currently in the realm of established fact. You and I have our strong suspicions, but he hasn't been convicted of anything and as far as I'm aware the evidence boils down to a few witness statements. The Tiananmen Square massacre is supported by photos, multiple eyewitness accounts from protestors and soldiers, foreign media reports, and even remorseful statements from government officials. > if a young actress had accused him in 2010, for example, she would have been suppressed She probably would have worsened her career prospects, which I agree is horrific. It's a testament of how the entertainment industry reinforces patriarchal norms. But it is a far cry from actual suppression. Personalities like David Icke have been lobbing accusations around about the Royal Family for years, publishing books and giving talks. As far as I'm aware he hasn't been imprisioned or censored in the UK for any of that. He's been banned from countries for denying the Holocaust and spreading COVID misinformation, but neither of these are cases of stating well-established facts.

n4r9 3y ago

Could you give examples? I can think of some cases where a controversial interpretation of the evidence will get you in trouble, but not well-established facts in the realm of "this historical event did in fact occur".

sandspar 3y ago
If you go back to before Jeffrey Epstein was exposed, you would likely face high level suppression if you made a public accusation of Prince Andrew. Many accusations of sexual assault were suppressed before they became believed during #MeToo. Courtney Love publicly warned about Harvey Weinstein in 2005, implying that his behavior was widely known for decades before he was finally arrested. We can talk about it now, but if a young actress had accused him in 2010, for example, she would have been suppressed. It's almost certain that there are other things like this going on right now. We just haven't heard about them yet. In other words, within our lifetimes we will almost certainly learn, "In 2024, they did..." and we're not aware of it now.
- n4r9 3y ago
  Well sure, but Prince Andrew conducting sexual abuse isn't currently in the realm of established fact. You and I have our strong suspicions, but he hasn't been convicted of anything and as far as I'm aware the evidence boils down to a few witness statements. The Tiananmen Square massacre is supported by photos, multiple eyewitness accounts from protestors and soldiers, foreign media reports, and even remorseful statements from government officials. > if a young actress had accused him in 2010, for example, she would have been suppressed She probably would have worsened her career prospects, which I agree is horrific. It's a testament of how the entertainment industry reinforces patriarchal norms. But it is a far cry from actual suppression. Personalities like David Icke have been lobbing accusations around about the Royal Family for years, publishing books and giving talks. As far as I'm aware he hasn't been imprisioned or censored in the UK for any of that. He's been banned from countries for denying the Holocaust and spreading COVID misinformation, but neither of these are cases of stating well-established facts.