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From the article: > Tesla is probably at greatest risk here, having recently ditched physical stalks that instead move the turn signal functions to haptic butt

From the article: > Tesla is probably at greatest risk here, having recently ditched physical stalks that instead move the turn signal functions to haptic buttons on the steering wheel.

sensanaty 3y ago
That's legitimately insane to me. Plus you don't even get that satisfying clunk of turning the blinkers on. God the future is turning out so lame...
- yurishimo 3y ago
  Some parts of the future are always lame! But luckily, they can get better if at least one person cares enough to make facilitate the change :)
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- nottorp 3y ago
  The main problem is you have no tactile confirmation of the blinker status. They may have left some blinking icon on on the screen, but you're watching the road and don't see it. They may have left that confirmation 'click' sound on, but you can't hear it because you can't adjust the music volume :)
mgoetzke 3y ago
those 'haptic' buttons are real buttons. with a click feel and everything. they are great (tested in highland model 3)
- close04 3y ago
  What people call "real buttons" usually require a certain force and travel to activate. Capacitive buttons require little to no force or feedback, sometimes not even solid contact. I think the easiest way to understand the difference is to ask 2 questions: "can I put my finger on that button and not immediately trigger it" and "can I can physically tell that I am triggering it (ideally some physical travel)?" If the answers are "yes", then it's probably the kind of button people look for when talking about wanting "real buttons".
  - yreg 3y ago
    It depends. The solid state button under the MacBook trackpad is indistinguishable from the previous physical button.
    - close04 3y ago
      I wrote more in the comment above but just to add that the old trackpad is not the best point reference. This is just Apple chasing thinness by making any button barely have any travel. Signal or wiper stalks have 2 orders of magnitude more travel.
  - mythhabit 3y ago
    Apple has actually combined the two with their touchpads. When you press on them you get the "click" feedback. But its not actually a physical travel that activates, it's what they call "the haptic engine" that vibrates in a way that makes it feel like you've clicked a physical button. It works really well. However, I think that such buttons are far more expensive than a physically activated button, even if the latter is engineered to last a lifetime of heavy use.
    - close04 3y ago
      > But its not actually a physical travel that activates This was the little (to no) feedback of a press I was mentioning. Simulating the absolute bare minimum of travel. With the pressure sensors and the piezoelectric actuators it becomes a super-expensive, overengineered button simulator that works almost as well as the real thing. Even Apple dropped the fancier 3D touch completely, and the less fancy Force touch is just for trackpads. Everything else is the cheaper Haptic touch doing away with pressure sensors entirely. It was fine for my iPhone 8 home button and old watch. But a car is different. A hazard light button has ~5mm of travel. Blinker or wiper stalks have centimeters of travel. Same for rotary knobs. They're also well spaced from each other with hard to confuse actuation methods. In noisy and vibration prone environments, with time sensitive requirements, you want to have very clear and distinct ways to act and receive feedback that actions were performed, especially if critical for safety.

From the article: > Tesla is probably at greatest risk here, having recently ditched physical stalks that instead move the turn signal functions to haptic buttons on the steering wheel.

sensanaty 3y ago

That's legitimately insane to me. Plus you don't even get that satisfying clunk of turning the blinkers on. God the future is turning out so lame...

yurishimo 3y ago
Some parts of the future are always lame! But luckily, they can get better if at least one person cares enough to make facilitate the change :)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
nottorp 3y ago
The main problem is you have no tactile confirmation of the blinker status. They may have left some blinking icon on on the screen, but you're watching the road and don't see it. They may have left that confirmation 'click' sound on, but you can't hear it because you can't adjust the music volume :)

mgoetzke 3y ago

those 'haptic' buttons are real buttons. with a click feel and everything. they are great (tested in highland model 3)

close04 3y ago
What people call "real buttons" usually require a certain force and travel to activate. Capacitive buttons require little to no force or feedback, sometimes not even solid contact. I think the easiest way to understand the difference is to ask 2 questions: "can I put my finger on that button and not immediately trigger it" and "can I can physically tell that I am triggering it (ideally some physical travel)?" If the answers are "yes", then it's probably the kind of button people look for when talking about wanting "real buttons".
- yreg 3y ago
  It depends. The solid state button under the MacBook trackpad is indistinguishable from the previous physical button.
  - close04 3y ago
    I wrote more in the comment above but just to add that the old trackpad is not the best point reference. This is just Apple chasing thinness by making any button barely have any travel. Signal or wiper stalks have 2 orders of magnitude more travel.
- mythhabit 3y ago
  Apple has actually combined the two with their touchpads. When you press on them you get the "click" feedback. But its not actually a physical travel that activates, it's what they call "the haptic engine" that vibrates in a way that makes it feel like you've clicked a physical button. It works really well. However, I think that such buttons are far more expensive than a physically activated button, even if the latter is engineered to last a lifetime of heavy use.
  - close04 3y ago
    > But its not actually a physical travel that activates This was the little (to no) feedback of a press I was mentioning. Simulating the absolute bare minimum of travel. With the pressure sensors and the piezoelectric actuators it becomes a super-expensive, overengineered button simulator that works almost as well as the real thing. Even Apple dropped the fancier 3D touch completely, and the less fancy Force touch is just for trackpads. Everything else is the cheaper Haptic touch doing away with pressure sensors entirely. It was fine for my iPhone 8 home button and old watch. But a car is different. A hazard light button has ~5mm of travel. Blinker or wiper stalks have centimeters of travel. Same for rotary knobs. They're also well spaced from each other with hard to confuse actuation methods. In noisy and vibration prone environments, with time sensitive requirements, you want to have very clear and distinct ways to act and receive feedback that actions were performed, especially if critical for safety.