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If you live in a place where this is frequently required, in a Tesla you can put the defrost button on the shortcut bar at the bottom of the screen, where it on

If you live in a place where this is frequently required, in a Tesla you can put the defrost button on the shortcut bar at the bottom of the screen, where it only requires a quick glance to align your thumb to activate it. Which is actually easier than many cars with physical controls that may require multiple button presses and/or knob turns to configure all of the correct climate settings for defrosting in the current conditions.

arethuza 3y ago
Much easier to have a single physical button.
- modeless 3y ago
  Overstated. It's at best marginally easier to hit a random physical button on the center console than to hit a single button on the bottom bar of a Tesla screen, where it is very easy to grab by design. I generally don't hit those physical buttons without at least a glance, and that's all it takes for the Tesla bottom bar buttons too. This doesn't save the wiper situation, though, because that requires navigating menus. Clearly far worse than a physical control in that case.
  - arethuza 3y ago
    Well, I'm the customer and I want physical buttons! Edit: I had a car that used a touch screen feature to activate the heated windscreen - it was perfectly responsive, easy to find but I still hated it. Current car has a single physical button to turn on all relevant features with one press and I love it.
  - klausa 3y ago
    > It's at best marginally easier to hit a random physical button on the center console than to hit a single button on the bottom bar of a Tesla screen You presumably typed this out on a keyboard of some sort. Which one can you do more confidently and reliably without looking: — hitting the "u" key on a physical keyboard without looking — hitting the "u" key on a touchscreen keyboard on your most used mobile device?
    - modeless 3y ago
      I can touch type and hit 'u' without looking, sure. But only if my hands start on the home row. This has no relevance for the situation under discussion. I cannot hit the 'u' key on a physical keyboard confidently and reliably without looking if it is mounted on the center console of a car and I am driving with my hands starting on the steering wheel. I always look to position my hand to hit those buttons. Meanwhile, the Tesla bottom bar buttons are far easier to hit than any key on my phone keyboard because they are much larger and mounted in a fixed position relative to me with a built in place to rest and align my hand. These situations are completely incomparable.
      - nottorp 3y ago
        > But only if my hands start on the home row. But but... in a car your hands always start on the wheel...
        modeless 3y ago
        ...which is nowhere near the center console, very much unlike the 'u' key's convenient position millimeters from the home row...
      - Omin 3y ago
        There are knobs on the f and j key so you can find the home row without looking. Similarly, physical buttons in a car can be shaped in such a way that they allow for feeling your position.
      - otherme123 3y ago
        Be honest: when you reach for a physical button you might glance for 0.5 seconds or even less. Usually you'll try to reach it without looking, and only glance if for some reason you can't do it. You glance, reposition your hand, and operate the knob without looking. When you try to use a touch screen, you look at it all the time. I've just tested: to unlock my phone I have to push a physical button on the right side, swipe up and then make an easy pattern. I can grab the mobile, orient it correctly and push the side button without looking or even thinking. But just to make the up swipe I look at the screen (I can force my self to not do it, with effort). But I'm unable to make the pattern without looking all the time I trace it. It's like the brain don't want or can create muscle memory for touch screens.
  - hermitdev 3y ago
    Why touch screens should be an absolute no-go for anything safety adjacent: gloves. The overwhelming majority of touch screens just do _not_ work with the user wearing gloves. If I get into a car and it's -20F out, last thing I want to be doing is removing my gloves to operate a fucking touch screen to turn on heater/defroster/defogger/wipers, etc. And I absolutely, definitely, without a doubt, do not want to have to be removing/putting gloves back on while actually driving to adjust anything.
Kuinox 3y ago
My electric car, a Zoé, have real buttons to toggle the defrost. I know what the buttons are like, so I can jut move my hand until I feel I'm on the right button. I don't need a "quick glance".

arethuza 3y ago

Much easier to have a single physical button.

modeless 3y ago
Overstated. It's at best marginally easier to hit a random physical button on the center console than to hit a single button on the bottom bar of a Tesla screen, where it is very easy to grab by design. I generally don't hit those physical buttons without at least a glance, and that's all it takes for the Tesla bottom bar buttons too. This doesn't save the wiper situation, though, because that requires navigating menus. Clearly far worse than a physical control in that case.
- arethuza 3y ago
  Well, I'm the customer and I want physical buttons! Edit: I had a car that used a touch screen feature to activate the heated windscreen - it was perfectly responsive, easy to find but I still hated it. Current car has a single physical button to turn on all relevant features with one press and I love it.
- klausa 3y ago
  > It's at best marginally easier to hit a random physical button on the center console than to hit a single button on the bottom bar of a Tesla screen You presumably typed this out on a keyboard of some sort. Which one can you do more confidently and reliably without looking: — hitting the "u" key on a physical keyboard without looking — hitting the "u" key on a touchscreen keyboard on your most used mobile device?
  - modeless 3y ago
    I can touch type and hit 'u' without looking, sure. But only if my hands start on the home row. This has no relevance for the situation under discussion. I cannot hit the 'u' key on a physical keyboard confidently and reliably without looking if it is mounted on the center console of a car and I am driving with my hands starting on the steering wheel. I always look to position my hand to hit those buttons. Meanwhile, the Tesla bottom bar buttons are far easier to hit than any key on my phone keyboard because they are much larger and mounted in a fixed position relative to me with a built in place to rest and align my hand. These situations are completely incomparable.
    - nottorp 3y ago
      > But only if my hands start on the home row. But but... in a car your hands always start on the wheel...
      - modeless 3y ago
        ...which is nowhere near the center console, very much unlike the 'u' key's convenient position millimeters from the home row...
    - Omin 3y ago
      There are knobs on the f and j key so you can find the home row without looking. Similarly, physical buttons in a car can be shaped in such a way that they allow for feeling your position.
    - otherme123 3y ago
      Be honest: when you reach for a physical button you might glance for 0.5 seconds or even less. Usually you'll try to reach it without looking, and only glance if for some reason you can't do it. You glance, reposition your hand, and operate the knob without looking. When you try to use a touch screen, you look at it all the time. I've just tested: to unlock my phone I have to push a physical button on the right side, swipe up and then make an easy pattern. I can grab the mobile, orient it correctly and push the side button without looking or even thinking. But just to make the up swipe I look at the screen (I can force my self to not do it, with effort). But I'm unable to make the pattern without looking all the time I trace it. It's like the brain don't want or can create muscle memory for touch screens.
- hermitdev 3y ago
  Why touch screens should be an absolute no-go for anything safety adjacent: gloves. The overwhelming majority of touch screens just do _not_ work with the user wearing gloves. If I get into a car and it's -20F out, last thing I want to be doing is removing my gloves to operate a fucking touch screen to turn on heater/defroster/defogger/wipers, etc. And I absolutely, definitely, without a doubt, do not want to have to be removing/putting gloves back on while actually driving to adjust anything.

Kuinox 3y ago

My electric car, a Zoé, have real buttons to toggle the defrost. I know what the buttons are like, so I can jut move my hand until I feel I'm on the right button. I don't need a "quick glance".