4 ms·

Obvious limitation is something like Maps and media. My guess ones that use mechanical dials (i.e. Lexus until ~ year ago) cause more distraction than touchscr

Obvious limitation is something like Maps and media. My guess ones that use mechanical dials (i.e. Lexus until ~ year ago) cause more distraction than touchscreen by simply being harder to use and taking more time to solve your problem. Given how well chatgpt's voice recognition works - why not just put it on all cars!

gamepsys 3y ago
> Obvious limitation is something like Maps and media I would love to see some data to see how dangerous it is to operate Maps and Media apps on a touch screen while operating a moving vehicle. This is data modern automakers should have access to. I suspect the answer is that it does reduce safety.
- avar 3y ago
  Nobody has access to that data, even if you're excluded it to extreme cases like "an at-fault crash happening as the user was manipulating the map software directly". We can't bridge the gap between that and accident reports. And that doesn't get into the more subtle cases, e.g. a crash that happens later due to an earlier loss of situational awarenesses. It's also hard to quantify the opposite. E.g. I sometimes have to manipulate the map while driving, and resent the distraction. But afterwards I'm more likely to be in the right lane earlier, not be distracted because I'm trying to read a traffic sign in the 1-2 second window I might have etc.
  - gamepsys 3y ago
    There are enough sensors in a car to know when a collision has occurred. The car is capable of capturing touchscreen use metrics. Bonus points if you can find metrics for the same region/timespan for cars with tactile controls. You can then do any year 1 statistics algorithm to see if using the touchscreen is correlated with collisions. Yes, this doesn't prove causation. A correlation is enough to raise the flag about a safety issue. EDIT: A decent statistical analysis will also uncover if using the touch screen is negatively correlated with accidents -- if people that use maps in general are less likely to get into an accident. This again won't prove causation but would be of interest to the general public and regulators.
Spivak 3y ago
Check how Mazda did it with their ring control. I love it in mine. No touch screen needed. It's amazing that accessibility is such an afterthought that having a physical wheel that tabs forward and backward through a UI as the primary means of using it is unfathomable until it's actually implemented.
- speedgoose 3y ago
  If it’s like the old BMW iDrive systems, it’s pretty good but I think it’s a bit like comparing a blackberry and an iPhone. Sure the physical keyboard on the blackberry has advantages.
  - Spivak 3y ago
    > Sure the physical keyboard on the blackberry has advantages. Yes, being able to operate it without looking at it and capable of navigating arbitrary 3rd party apps. And because the tab position is stateful you can perform complex actions incrementally. Touch screens win for phones but you would hate one as your laptop keyboard. It's not a better or worse situation as much as a fit-for-purpose situation.
    - speedgoose 3y ago
      I think a good mix of physical buttons and touch inputs is best.
- jeffchien 3y ago
  I just wish Android Auto had an option to disable activity boundaries for spinning so I can spin from Maps to media, and use the joystick control for directional selection (i.e. it tries to find the next button in that direction). I was excited for Coolwalk but then never got used to switching between Maps and media with the joystick. In the end I just reverted to pressing the Nav and media buttons then spinning.
peeters 3y ago
I've only used a Lexus that had a touchpad. I do however regularly use a Mazda with its commander knob, and it is far safer than a touchscreen in my opinion. You can do most navigation without looking at the screen, with just an occasional glance to confirm you're doing what you think you're doing. Whereas a touchscreen requires constant attention while you're manipulating the screen. The only thing that annoys me about Commander Knob + Android Auto is that AA still forces attention breaks as you scroll through big lists (e.g. Spotify playlists) which is really stupid because you're not usually looking at the screen if you know you need to scroll say 75% down. You're just looking occasionally to see how far you've made it. By making the task take longer, it's reducing safety. The biggest safety issue by far with Mazda+AA is Google's baffling regression in handling voice input for common tasks while driving.
- pzduniak 3y ago
  >Google's baffling regression in handling voice input for common tasks while driving Is it just me or is Google Maps voice input in AA completely busted now? I used to be able to press the "Search" bar on the touch screen in the app, say the search term and it would just show the results. Likewise for adding stops along the way. Now for the former I need to explicitly say "navigate to X" (or it says that it doesn't have a screen and refuses to do anything???) and for the latter I have to say something like "add a navigation stop at X", the assistant lists our the result (??????) and asks me which one I want to choose. Of course I don't see anything on the map in either case. I can't imagine how bad it is when you
  - pzduniak 3y ago
    Oops, accidentally cut off the last few words. Coincidentally it's back to working in the first case I described. Adding stops is still broken:/
- antifa 3y ago
  My Mazda is so weird. Android Auto has a completely random load time. It could be a few seconds, or it could take over 1 minute. Often I don't know if left or right is the fastest way to get somewhere, so I'd like to check google maps or waze, but it won't finish loading until a while after I've guessed and committed myself. It'll play the radio instead of my phone audio at some starts, then usually switch to phone audio automatically. There are times when the map will "freeze". New frames are only rendered as a response to moving the knob. I have a USB cable and Bluetooth both connected (no idea why both). There is no logical place to put your phone (I bought a holder accessory, it's great). There's no physical music pause button. People who like car accidents and being careless and don't mind pointless death and destruction like to point out you can pause music by fatfingering the knobe through a bunch of menus. This is probably Spotify's fault, but when you're in a song search, the "next song" button goes to the start of the currently playing song, instead of the next song. The "next song" button works correctly for all other Spotify list-ish things AFAIK, just not search. And search is obviously the place you need a skip button the most.
croo 3y ago
> Given how well chatgpt's voice recognition works - why not just put it on all cars! Because saying "roll down the left window" is still a fucking nuisance compared to a click of a button.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  Open/Close all windows comes to mind. Fading audio forward/backward/center is a PITA on a Tesla. There's tons of things one should be able to automate - don't you have any imagination?
  - troupo 3y ago
    We do have imagination. And that's why we're saying that voice control in the car is bullshit.
- nottorp 3y ago
  And because you may be driving with your windows open, listening to music or having passengers and talking to them.
sa-code 3y ago
Because it still makes mistakes, and it's not always clear when a mistake has been made.

gamepsys 3y ago

> Obvious limitation is something like Maps and media I would love to see some data to see how dangerous it is to operate Maps and Media apps on a touch screen while operating a moving vehicle. This is data modern automakers should have access to. I suspect the answer is that it does reduce safety.

avar 3y ago
Nobody has access to that data, even if you're excluded it to extreme cases like "an at-fault crash happening as the user was manipulating the map software directly". We can't bridge the gap between that and accident reports. And that doesn't get into the more subtle cases, e.g. a crash that happens later due to an earlier loss of situational awarenesses. It's also hard to quantify the opposite. E.g. I sometimes have to manipulate the map while driving, and resent the distraction. But afterwards I'm more likely to be in the right lane earlier, not be distracted because I'm trying to read a traffic sign in the 1-2 second window I might have etc.
- gamepsys 3y ago
  There are enough sensors in a car to know when a collision has occurred. The car is capable of capturing touchscreen use metrics. Bonus points if you can find metrics for the same region/timespan for cars with tactile controls. You can then do any year 1 statistics algorithm to see if using the touchscreen is correlated with collisions. Yes, this doesn't prove causation. A correlation is enough to raise the flag about a safety issue. EDIT: A decent statistical analysis will also uncover if using the touch screen is negatively correlated with accidents -- if people that use maps in general are less likely to get into an accident. This again won't prove causation but would be of interest to the general public and regulators.

Spivak 3y ago

Check how Mazda did it with their ring control. I love it in mine. No touch screen needed. It's amazing that accessibility is such an afterthought that having a physical wheel that tabs forward and backward through a UI as the primary means of using it is unfathomable until it's actually implemented.

speedgoose 3y ago
If it’s like the old BMW iDrive systems, it’s pretty good but I think it’s a bit like comparing a blackberry and an iPhone. Sure the physical keyboard on the blackberry has advantages.
- Spivak 3y ago
  > Sure the physical keyboard on the blackberry has advantages. Yes, being able to operate it without looking at it and capable of navigating arbitrary 3rd party apps. And because the tab position is stateful you can perform complex actions incrementally. Touch screens win for phones but you would hate one as your laptop keyboard. It's not a better or worse situation as much as a fit-for-purpose situation.
  - speedgoose 3y ago
    I think a good mix of physical buttons and touch inputs is best.
jeffchien 3y ago
I just wish Android Auto had an option to disable activity boundaries for spinning so I can spin from Maps to media, and use the joystick control for directional selection (i.e. it tries to find the next button in that direction). I was excited for Coolwalk but then never got used to switching between Maps and media with the joystick. In the end I just reverted to pressing the Nav and media buttons then spinning.

peeters 3y ago

I've only used a Lexus that had a touchpad. I do however regularly use a Mazda with its commander knob, and it is far safer than a touchscreen in my opinion. You can do most navigation without looking at the screen, with just an occasional glance to confirm you're doing what you think you're doing. Whereas a touchscreen requires constant attention while you're manipulating the screen. The only thing that annoys me about Commander Knob + Android Auto is that AA still forces attention breaks as you scroll through big lists (e.g. Spotify playlists) which is really stupid because you're not usually looking at the screen if you know you need to scroll say 75% down. You're just looking occasionally to see how far you've made it. By making the task take longer, it's reducing safety. The biggest safety issue by far with Mazda+AA is Google's baffling regression in handling voice input for common tasks while driving.

pzduniak 3y ago
>Google's baffling regression in handling voice input for common tasks while driving Is it just me or is Google Maps voice input in AA completely busted now? I used to be able to press the "Search" bar on the touch screen in the app, say the search term and it would just show the results. Likewise for adding stops along the way. Now for the former I need to explicitly say "navigate to X" (or it says that it doesn't have a screen and refuses to do anything???) and for the latter I have to say something like "add a navigation stop at X", the assistant lists our the result (??????) and asks me which one I want to choose. Of course I don't see anything on the map in either case. I can't imagine how bad it is when you
- pzduniak 3y ago
  Oops, accidentally cut off the last few words. Coincidentally it's back to working in the first case I described. Adding stops is still broken:/
antifa 3y ago
My Mazda is so weird. Android Auto has a completely random load time. It could be a few seconds, or it could take over 1 minute. Often I don't know if left or right is the fastest way to get somewhere, so I'd like to check google maps or waze, but it won't finish loading until a while after I've guessed and committed myself. It'll play the radio instead of my phone audio at some starts, then usually switch to phone audio automatically. There are times when the map will "freeze". New frames are only rendered as a response to moving the knob. I have a USB cable and Bluetooth both connected (no idea why both). There is no logical place to put your phone (I bought a holder accessory, it's great). There's no physical music pause button. People who like car accidents and being careless and don't mind pointless death and destruction like to point out you can pause music by fatfingering the knobe through a bunch of menus. This is probably Spotify's fault, but when you're in a song search, the "next song" button goes to the start of the currently playing song, instead of the next song. The "next song" button works correctly for all other Spotify list-ish things AFAIK, just not search. And search is obviously the place you need a skip button the most.

croo 3y ago

> Given how well chatgpt's voice recognition works - why not just put it on all cars! Because saying "roll down the left window" is still a fucking nuisance compared to a click of a button.

dzhiurgis 3y ago
Open/Close all windows comes to mind. Fading audio forward/backward/center is a PITA on a Tesla. There's tons of things one should be able to automate - don't you have any imagination?
- troupo 3y ago
  We do have imagination. And that's why we're saying that voice control in the car is bullshit.
nottorp 3y ago
And because you may be driving with your windows open, listening to music or having passengers and talking to them.

sa-code 3y ago

Because it still makes mistakes, and it's not always clear when a mistake has been made.