5 ms·

> I really miss the feel of a physical throttle linkage on the snow and ice, I feel it's much more difficult to judge grip. The throttle is separated from the

> I really miss the feel of a physical throttle linkage on the snow and ice, I feel it's much more difficult to judge grip. The throttle is separated from the wheels/ground by the transmission and the whole engine, which makes me wonder if the response you felt probably was a combination of eg rpm/physical vibration and a few other factors. It should be possible to recreate these even in an EV, then.

kedikedi 3y ago
The throttle feeling of a cable operated throttle is more about how much air the engine wants to breathe. I’d say it’s kinda still related to rpm, but it might be a completely different feeling on a turbo engine, that I haven’t experienced.
- consp 3y ago
  On most turbo engines these days they are electronically operated and have no linkage anyway. That's even the case in most modern petrol cars where people think there still is a linkage. And that trend has been going on for at least 20 years.
  - garaetjjte 3y ago
    Linkages were out when electronic stability control was introduced.
- cuu508 3y ago
  Right, but how does the changes in engine wanting to breathe manifest through the throttle pedal feel? Changes of vibrations? Changes of resistance? Changes in lag from pushing the pedal to the engine responding? Perhaps on the direct throttle car you could simply hear the engine better?
  - magicalhippo 3y ago
    It was probably sound and vibration in combination with less lag. We had an older non-turbo car before the EV.
  - kedikedi 3y ago
    It changes resistance. My dad had an old, full mechanical/hydraulic automatic car and it was an extremely visible feeling from the throttle pedal when it changed gears or when it engaged the extra clutch (it had torque converter and some extra clutch on top of it for fuel efficiency) The sound of the engine also changes greatly depending on the throttle position and engine load but for me it was more audible and I couldn’t feel it from the throttle. Modern cars are pretty good with sound insulation from the engine, but I’ve heard some “sporty” cars direct the intake sound to the cabin for giving the noisy sports car experience to the driver without being obnoxious with the exhaust side.
macNchz 3y ago
There is a noticeable difference in feel between ICE cars with physical throttle cables and those with electronic throttles…the drive-by-wire models have a very small amount of lag between pedal input and engine response. If you’re attuned to it, or drive “spiritedly”, the effect is quite noticeable. I think mainstream cars mostly switched over around 20 years ago, I remember learning about it when I googled for why the accelerator pedals in new cars felt so weird to me. I think there are a few reasons for it, one of which is simply increasing efficiency by smoothing the accelerator input a bit. I’ve only driven an electric car a few times, so I’m not sure if they also have this delay, but I would expect they do.
- magicalhippo 3y ago
  > one of which is simply increasing efficiency by smoothing the accelerator input a bit Right, it feels very much like I'm just changing a set-point. Putting the car in eco mode makes it very noticeable, but even though it's less noticeable in sport mode it's still not the same.
- mythhabit 3y ago
  Many modern cars have a turbo that makes this almost impossible to tell. It almost feels irrelevant, compared to planning ahead for the inevitable wait for the turbo to build pressure.

kedikedi 3y ago

The throttle feeling of a cable operated throttle is more about how much air the engine wants to breathe. I’d say it’s kinda still related to rpm, but it might be a completely different feeling on a turbo engine, that I haven’t experienced.

consp 3y ago
On most turbo engines these days they are electronically operated and have no linkage anyway. That's even the case in most modern petrol cars where people think there still is a linkage. And that trend has been going on for at least 20 years.
- garaetjjte 3y ago
  Linkages were out when electronic stability control was introduced.
cuu508 3y ago
Right, but how does the changes in engine wanting to breathe manifest through the throttle pedal feel? Changes of vibrations? Changes of resistance? Changes in lag from pushing the pedal to the engine responding? Perhaps on the direct throttle car you could simply hear the engine better?
- magicalhippo 3y ago
  It was probably sound and vibration in combination with less lag. We had an older non-turbo car before the EV.
- kedikedi 3y ago
  It changes resistance. My dad had an old, full mechanical/hydraulic automatic car and it was an extremely visible feeling from the throttle pedal when it changed gears or when it engaged the extra clutch (it had torque converter and some extra clutch on top of it for fuel efficiency) The sound of the engine also changes greatly depending on the throttle position and engine load but for me it was more audible and I couldn’t feel it from the throttle. Modern cars are pretty good with sound insulation from the engine, but I’ve heard some “sporty” cars direct the intake sound to the cabin for giving the noisy sports car experience to the driver without being obnoxious with the exhaust side.

macNchz 3y ago

There is a noticeable difference in feel between ICE cars with physical throttle cables and those with electronic throttles…the drive-by-wire models have a very small amount of lag between pedal input and engine response. If you’re attuned to it, or drive “spiritedly”, the effect is quite noticeable. I think mainstream cars mostly switched over around 20 years ago, I remember learning about it when I googled for why the accelerator pedals in new cars felt so weird to me. I think there are a few reasons for it, one of which is simply increasing efficiency by smoothing the accelerator input a bit. I’ve only driven an electric car a few times, so I’m not sure if they also have this delay, but I would expect they do.

magicalhippo 3y ago
> one of which is simply increasing efficiency by smoothing the accelerator input a bit Right, it feels very much like I'm just changing a set-point. Putting the car in eco mode makes it very noticeable, but even though it's less noticeable in sport mode it's still not the same.
mythhabit 3y ago
Many modern cars have a turbo that makes this almost impossible to tell. It almost feels irrelevant, compared to planning ahead for the inevitable wait for the turbo to build pressure.