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We need some kind of ISO standardisation of language syntax. All new languages must have the exact syntax for standard constructs, so that anyone can write usef

We need some kind of ISO standardisation of language syntax. All new languages must have the exact syntax for standard constructs, so that anyone can write useful programs with the one syntax they know. The languages may differ around the edges. It is getting out of control now. Every designer feels compelled to come up with a new way of defining a function, etc.

bw86 3y ago
Why should we take that much care regarding the least important part of a language? Every syntax that was invented for actual use (not Brainfuck et al.) can be learnt in short time. Language semantics and libraries are more important.
- richrichie 3y ago
  If it reduces cognitive load, why not? A positive side effect could be that all those millions of tutorials that teach syntax in the name of teaching programming disappear.
  - bw86 3y ago
    You have a point here and I appreciate it. But I still have to disagree: Standardization is a good idea for topics that are "done". But I strongly believe that we still do not know the best syntax, the best way of programming in the general. Tal is obviously not a language that wants to replace your mainstream language of choice. Its syntax is not totally original, but is inspired from old languages like Forth. I believe we need such experiments to keep old but not (yet) mainstream ideas alive and to foster innovation. Tal has advantages for the use case it was designed for, that would be difficult or impossible to achieve with more "standard" syntaxes. What is not to love about that? Maybe experiments like this will someday lead to the inclusion of new ideas into our mainstream languages, like lambda expressions/closures have become normal over the last decade?
    - richrichie 3y ago
      Good points. I have changed my opinion :)
entaloneralie 3y ago
Tal is the assembly language of the uxn CPU, it doesn't abstract any mechanical operation from the virtual machine, it's not a high level language but it could be a target for one. For instance, this is a C compiler that targets Uxn instructions, disassembling the artifacts will give you back uxntal code. https://github.com/lynn/chibicc https://github.com/lynn/chibicc

bw86 3y ago

Why should we take that much care regarding the least important part of a language? Every syntax that was invented for actual use (not Brainfuck et al.) can be learnt in short time. Language semantics and libraries are more important.

richrichie 3y ago
If it reduces cognitive load, why not? A positive side effect could be that all those millions of tutorials that teach syntax in the name of teaching programming disappear.
- bw86 3y ago
  You have a point here and I appreciate it. But I still have to disagree: Standardization is a good idea for topics that are "done". But I strongly believe that we still do not know the best syntax, the best way of programming in the general. Tal is obviously not a language that wants to replace your mainstream language of choice. Its syntax is not totally original, but is inspired from old languages like Forth. I believe we need such experiments to keep old but not (yet) mainstream ideas alive and to foster innovation. Tal has advantages for the use case it was designed for, that would be difficult or impossible to achieve with more "standard" syntaxes. What is not to love about that? Maybe experiments like this will someday lead to the inclusion of new ideas into our mainstream languages, like lambda expressions/closures have become normal over the last decade?
  - richrichie 3y ago
    Good points. I have changed my opinion :)

entaloneralie 3y ago

Tal is the assembly language of the uxn CPU, it doesn't abstract any mechanical operation from the virtual machine, it's not a high level language but it could be a target for one. For instance, this is a C compiler that targets Uxn instructions, disassembling the artifacts will give you back uxntal code. https://github.com/lynn/chibicc https://github.com/lynn/chibicc