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I think the issue with the horn is referring to the Tesla Model S. And specifically the horn button being capacitive co-located with the voice assistance and w

I think the issue with the horn is referring to the Tesla Model S. And specifically the horn button being capacitive co-located with the voice assistance and windscreen wiper buttons. Which in a safety situation was difficult to locate and press.

userbinator 3y ago
Not the least bit helped by the fact that there seem to be several models all called the "Model S", but with very different controls. https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/models/en_us/GUID-DEB259CC-ABAC-4BFC-8D10-B7B1BBCFCB1F.html https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/models/en_us/GUID-DEB259C... For vehicles manufactured as of approximately January 2024: To sound the horn, press the middle of the steering yoke (or steering wheel). For vehicles manufactured prior to approximately January 2024: To sound the horn, press and hold the horn button on the right side of the steering yoke (or steering wheel). "press and hold" doesn't seem like it'd be easy to do if all you wanted was a quick toot.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Thanks for that link, which has images. Jesus, the pre-2024 horn is insane. It's one tiny button among many on the right side (of that stupid yoke, but I digress...) The whole point of having the horn in the middle of the steering wheel is you can just mash it with your palm, no need to hunt for anything. Really wonder how that ever got into a production car in the first place.
  - userbinator 3y ago
    The whole point of having the horn in the middle of the steering wheel is you can just mash it with your palm, no need to hunt for anything. One can easily see this "meme" if one searches for images of "driver honking horn": https://www.google.com/search?q=driver+honking+horn&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=driver+honking+horn&tbm=isch
    - rjmunro 3y ago
      I always worry about the interaction of sounding the horn and the airbag firing, sending your arm into your face.
  - kergonath 3y ago
    > Really wonder how that ever got into a production car in the first place. Teslas are the Dunning-Kruger cars. Designed by people who seemingly do not really know how to design cars (a wheel is boring; let’s put a yoke because video games! Look how cool we are! Also, touchscreens!) and built with poor quality control. I was not aware of the horn button, but if I had to guess, Tesla would be my first choice.
darkwater 3y ago
They just reverted the horn positioning in the soon-to-be-released refresh of the Model S/X. Sometimes even Elon admits he was wrong.
- rlt 3y ago
  I mean, one of his mantras is "If you're not adding things back in at least 10% of the time, you're clearly not deleting enough."
letitbeirie 3y ago
It's weird that Tesla is being called out over the horn. In driver's ed they tell you to not to use your horn when you're annoyed at other drivers - only use it if there's an imminent danger to avoid a crash. But you better hope it works because if it doesn't, the airbag behind it explodes. ... I'm not sure Tesla improved the situation, but it definitely seems like the situation has room for improvement.
- zarzavat 3y ago
  > In driver's ed they tell you to not to use your horn when you're annoyed at other drivers This is definitely not a cultural universal. Different countries have different practices. In some places the horn simply means “I’m here, check your mirrors”, in other places it means “You bastard!”, and in some other places it means “We are both stuck in traffic let’s make as much noise as possible to pass the time” > only use it if there's an imminent danger to avoid a crash Therefore the difference between the horn being readily accessible and being hidden away could be the difference between life and death.
  - watwut 3y ago
    And in others is it simply infraction worth of fine to use it in cities or nearby buildings for anything except danger.
  - letitbeirie 3y ago
    > Therefore the difference between the horn being readily accessible and being hidden away could be the difference between life and death. Being readily accessible is a must. The point I was trying to make (poorly; it was late) was that having the horn button in the middle of the wheel is about the worst place imaginable if you lay on the horn to avoid a crash and it happens anyway, because some portion of your arm is probably going to be broken when it gets crushed between an exploding airbag and your rapidly-decelerating body.
- RedShift1 3y ago
  In danger imminent situations you might not have the time or mental capacity to think about buttons.
mgoetzke 3y ago
I a safety situation by drivers used to old style cars ? but it doesnt matter, even Model S has it in the middle now again. good choice
rsynnott 3y ago
> And specifically the horn button being capacitive co-located with the voice assistance and windscreen wiper buttons. ... Wait, is this a real thing, or just a joke about them being bad at UX? If a real thing... goodness, I'm quite surprised that doesn't break some mandatory safety rule.
mgoetzke 3y ago
Recent Model S versions have the horn where it belongs
kwhitefoot 3y ago
Which years does this refer to? The horn on my 2015 S70D is huge pad in the centre of the steering wheel.

userbinator 3y ago

Not the least bit helped by the fact that there seem to be several models all called the "Model S", but with very different controls. https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/models/en_us/GUID-DEB259CC-ABAC-4BFC-8D10-B7B1BBCFCB1F.html https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/models/en_us/GUID-DEB259C... For vehicles manufactured as of approximately January 2024: To sound the horn, press the middle of the steering yoke (or steering wheel). For vehicles manufactured prior to approximately January 2024: To sound the horn, press and hold the horn button on the right side of the steering yoke (or steering wheel). "press and hold" doesn't seem like it'd be easy to do if all you wanted was a quick toot.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
Thanks for that link, which has images. Jesus, the pre-2024 horn is insane. It's one tiny button among many on the right side (of that stupid yoke, but I digress...) The whole point of having the horn in the middle of the steering wheel is you can just mash it with your palm, no need to hunt for anything. Really wonder how that ever got into a production car in the first place.
- userbinator 3y ago
  The whole point of having the horn in the middle of the steering wheel is you can just mash it with your palm, no need to hunt for anything. One can easily see this "meme" if one searches for images of "driver honking horn": https://www.google.com/search?q=driver+honking+horn&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=driver+honking+horn&tbm=isch
  - rjmunro 3y ago
    I always worry about the interaction of sounding the horn and the airbag firing, sending your arm into your face.
- kergonath 3y ago
  > Really wonder how that ever got into a production car in the first place. Teslas are the Dunning-Kruger cars. Designed by people who seemingly do not really know how to design cars (a wheel is boring; let’s put a yoke because video games! Look how cool we are! Also, touchscreens!) and built with poor quality control. I was not aware of the horn button, but if I had to guess, Tesla would be my first choice.

darkwater 3y ago

They just reverted the horn positioning in the soon-to-be-released refresh of the Model S/X. Sometimes even Elon admits he was wrong.

rlt 3y ago
I mean, one of his mantras is "If you're not adding things back in at least 10% of the time, you're clearly not deleting enough."

letitbeirie 3y ago

It's weird that Tesla is being called out over the horn. In driver's ed they tell you to not to use your horn when you're annoyed at other drivers - only use it if there's an imminent danger to avoid a crash. But you better hope it works because if it doesn't, the airbag behind it explodes. ... I'm not sure Tesla improved the situation, but it definitely seems like the situation has room for improvement.

zarzavat 3y ago
> In driver's ed they tell you to not to use your horn when you're annoyed at other drivers This is definitely not a cultural universal. Different countries have different practices. In some places the horn simply means “I’m here, check your mirrors”, in other places it means “You bastard!”, and in some other places it means “We are both stuck in traffic let’s make as much noise as possible to pass the time” > only use it if there's an imminent danger to avoid a crash Therefore the difference between the horn being readily accessible and being hidden away could be the difference between life and death.
- watwut 3y ago
  And in others is it simply infraction worth of fine to use it in cities or nearby buildings for anything except danger.
- letitbeirie 3y ago
  > Therefore the difference between the horn being readily accessible and being hidden away could be the difference between life and death. Being readily accessible is a must. The point I was trying to make (poorly; it was late) was that having the horn button in the middle of the wheel is about the worst place imaginable if you lay on the horn to avoid a crash and it happens anyway, because some portion of your arm is probably going to be broken when it gets crushed between an exploding airbag and your rapidly-decelerating body.
RedShift1 3y ago
In danger imminent situations you might not have the time or mental capacity to think about buttons.

mgoetzke 3y ago

I a safety situation by drivers used to old style cars ? but it doesnt matter, even Model S has it in the middle now again. good choice

rsynnott 3y ago

> And specifically the horn button being capacitive co-located with the voice assistance and windscreen wiper buttons. ... Wait, is this a real thing, or just a joke about them being bad at UX? If a real thing... goodness, I'm quite surprised that doesn't break some mandatory safety rule.

mgoetzke 3y ago

Recent Model S versions have the horn where it belongs

kwhitefoot 3y ago

Which years does this refer to? The horn on my 2015 S70D is huge pad in the centre of the steering wheel.