5 ms·

The pedals do not behave the same.

by c22 3y ago

tempestn 3y ago
Nor does the steering yoke.
userbinator 3y ago
You mean you don't press the left one to stop, and the right one to go?
- theGnuMe 3y ago
  No, it’s the feedback loop. You feel the hydraulic system for the brakes and the steering. If you have an accelerator cable then you feel that tension as well… but the accelerator feel is less important.
- spdustin 3y ago
  You don't feel the hydraulic feedback in the brake pedal (just the ABS buzzing), and gas pedals in many modern EFI vehicles feel more like foot-operated potentiometers than throttle linkages.
  - magicalhippo 3y ago
    > gas pedals in many modern EFI vehicles feel more like foot-operated potentiometers than throttle linkages. In my EV it literally is a potentiometer. I really miss the feel of a physical throttle linkage on the snow and ice, I feel it's much more difficult to judge grip. Also, since it's just a pot, I don't know why there's not a speed mode for it, it to make it operate the cruise control speed set-point rather than torque.
    - user_7832 3y ago
      > I really miss the feel of a physical throttle linkage on the snow and ice, I feel it's much more difficult to judge grip. The throttle is separated from the wheels/ground by the transmission and the whole engine, which makes me wonder if the response you felt probably was a combination of eg rpm/physical vibration and a few other factors. It should be possible to recreate these even in an EV, then.
      - kedikedi 3y ago
        The throttle feeling of a cable operated throttle is more about how much air the engine wants to breathe. I’d say it’s kinda still related to rpm, but it might be a completely different feeling on a turbo engine, that I haven’t experienced.
        consp 3y ago
        On most turbo engines these days they are electronically operated and have no linkage anyway. That's even the case in most modern petrol cars where people think there still is a linkage. And that trend has been going on for at least 20 years.
        garaetjjte 3y ago
        Linkages were out when electronic stability control was introduced.
        cuu508 3y ago
        Right, but how does the changes in engine wanting to breathe manifest through the throttle pedal feel? Changes of vibrations? Changes of resistance? Changes in lag from pushing the pedal to the engine responding? Perhaps on the direct throttle car you could simply hear the engine better?
        magicalhippo 3y ago
        It was probably sound and vibration in combination with less lag. We had an older non-turbo car before the EV.
        kedikedi 3y ago
        It changes resistance. My dad had an old, full mechanical/hydraulic automatic car and it was an extremely visible feeling from the throttle pedal when it changed gears or when it engaged the extra clutch (it had torque converter and some extra clutch on top of it for fuel efficiency) The sound of the engine also changes greatly depending on the throttle position and engine load but for me it was more audible and I couldn’t feel it from the throttle. Modern cars are pretty good with sound insulation from the engine, but I’ve heard some “sporty” cars direct the intake sound to the cabin for giving the noisy sports car experience to the driver without being obnoxious with the exhaust side.
    - Vecr 3y ago
      Multiple cross-checked hall effect sensors, hopefully. Same concept though.
      - magicalhippo 3y ago
        That's what I had thought, but mechanic that replaced the throttle pedal assembly called it a potentiometer (had a weird pulsing in the force feedback). Of course, could be he was wrong.
        Vecr 3y ago
        I read the "unintended acceleration" report from NASA. The Toyota cars involved had two independent hall effect sensors. Hopefully there's been no backsliding since then.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - fy20 3y ago
    Every vehicle I've ever driven since I learnt to drive 20 years ago has had an electronic throttle body, a digital accelerator and ABS. Welcome to 2024. I did learn to drive manual, but I'd never buy another car like that. Maybe it's fun for racing, but for every day driving, automatic requires less effort and longevity isn't a concern today.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - mythhabit 3y ago
    "Old" cars tend to have brake pedals where the pressure is used to judge how much force you are applying - find the point where it bites and then modulate the force. Many "modern" cars brake pretty much as soon as the pedal moves, and the amount of braking is determined by the position of the pedal, rather than the force applied at a certain point. I have no idea how they do this, but whenever I switch to a car with the "old" style, I always end up braking way too hard until my brain recalibrate.
- Beldin 3y ago
  Around here the middle one is to stop, left is to switch gears. Except in go-karts, those only have 2 pedals.
  - arghwhat 3y ago
    Remember to press both left and center pedals to stop. Manuals proliferate in EU, but we have also always had automatics on the road - and a significant increase since DSGs hit the market - so no one who has driven a few normal cars would be surprised by two pedals in an electric.
    - aaronmdjones 3y ago
      Using the clutch before you need to when braking is bad form. The engine will assist in braking if you let it, especially in the low gears, and this doesn't use any fuel -- dumping the clutch immediately consumes more fuel to keep the engine running. Put the brake pedal in first, and then the clutch pedal as you approach idle RPMs.
      - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
        > Remember to press both left and center pedals to stop To stop, not to slow down.
        amenhotep 3y ago
        It's still not correct. You press the brake to stop. You press the clutch to not stall. They're separate concerns, or maybe more accurately one is only a response to the other - you clutch as you're about to stop because otherwise you'll stall, you don't brake and clutch at the same time because you decide to stop and not stall at the same time.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        3y ago

The pedals do not behave the same.

by c22 3y ago

The pedals do not behave the same.

tempestn 3y ago

Nor does the steering yoke.

userbinator 3y ago

You mean you don't press the left one to stop, and the right one to go?

theGnuMe 3y ago
No, it’s the feedback loop. You feel the hydraulic system for the brakes and the steering. If you have an accelerator cable then you feel that tension as well… but the accelerator feel is less important.
spdustin 3y ago
You don't feel the hydraulic feedback in the brake pedal (just the ABS buzzing), and gas pedals in many modern EFI vehicles feel more like foot-operated potentiometers than throttle linkages.
- magicalhippo 3y ago
  > gas pedals in many modern EFI vehicles feel more like foot-operated potentiometers than throttle linkages. In my EV it literally is a potentiometer. I really miss the feel of a physical throttle linkage on the snow and ice, I feel it's much more difficult to judge grip. Also, since it's just a pot, I don't know why there's not a speed mode for it, it to make it operate the cruise control speed set-point rather than torque.
  - user_7832 3y ago
    > I really miss the feel of a physical throttle linkage on the snow and ice, I feel it's much more difficult to judge grip. The throttle is separated from the wheels/ground by the transmission and the whole engine, which makes me wonder if the response you felt probably was a combination of eg rpm/physical vibration and a few other factors. It should be possible to recreate these even in an EV, then.
    - kedikedi 3y ago
      The throttle feeling of a cable operated throttle is more about how much air the engine wants to breathe. I’d say it’s kinda still related to rpm, but it might be a completely different feeling on a turbo engine, that I haven’t experienced.
      - consp 3y ago
        On most turbo engines these days they are electronically operated and have no linkage anyway. That's even the case in most modern petrol cars where people think there still is a linkage. And that trend has been going on for at least 20 years.
        garaetjjte 3y ago
        Linkages were out when electronic stability control was introduced.
      - cuu508 3y ago
        Right, but how does the changes in engine wanting to breathe manifest through the throttle pedal feel? Changes of vibrations? Changes of resistance? Changes in lag from pushing the pedal to the engine responding? Perhaps on the direct throttle car you could simply hear the engine better?
        magicalhippo 3y ago
        It was probably sound and vibration in combination with less lag. We had an older non-turbo car before the EV.
        kedikedi 3y ago
        It changes resistance. My dad had an old, full mechanical/hydraulic automatic car and it was an extremely visible feeling from the throttle pedal when it changed gears or when it engaged the extra clutch (it had torque converter and some extra clutch on top of it for fuel efficiency) The sound of the engine also changes greatly depending on the throttle position and engine load but for me it was more audible and I couldn’t feel it from the throttle. Modern cars are pretty good with sound insulation from the engine, but I’ve heard some “sporty” cars direct the intake sound to the cabin for giving the noisy sports car experience to the driver without being obnoxious with the exhaust side.
  - Vecr 3y ago
    Multiple cross-checked hall effect sensors, hopefully. Same concept though.
    - magicalhippo 3y ago
      That's what I had thought, but mechanic that replaced the throttle pedal assembly called it a potentiometer (had a weird pulsing in the force feedback). Of course, could be he was wrong.
      - Vecr 3y ago
        I read the "unintended acceleration" report from NASA. The Toyota cars involved had two independent hall effect sensors. Hopefully there's been no backsliding since then.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- fy20 3y ago
  Every vehicle I've ever driven since I learnt to drive 20 years ago has had an electronic throttle body, a digital accelerator and ABS. Welcome to 2024. I did learn to drive manual, but I'd never buy another car like that. Maybe it's fun for racing, but for every day driving, automatic requires less effort and longevity isn't a concern today.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mythhabit 3y ago
  "Old" cars tend to have brake pedals where the pressure is used to judge how much force you are applying - find the point where it bites and then modulate the force. Many "modern" cars brake pretty much as soon as the pedal moves, and the amount of braking is determined by the position of the pedal, rather than the force applied at a certain point. I have no idea how they do this, but whenever I switch to a car with the "old" style, I always end up braking way too hard until my brain recalibrate.
Beldin 3y ago
Around here the middle one is to stop, left is to switch gears. Except in go-karts, those only have 2 pedals.
- arghwhat 3y ago
  Remember to press both left and center pedals to stop. Manuals proliferate in EU, but we have also always had automatics on the road - and a significant increase since DSGs hit the market - so no one who has driven a few normal cars would be surprised by two pedals in an electric.
  - aaronmdjones 3y ago
    Using the clutch before you need to when braking is bad form. The engine will assist in braking if you let it, especially in the low gears, and this doesn't use any fuel -- dumping the clutch immediately consumes more fuel to keep the engine running. Put the brake pedal in first, and then the clutch pedal as you approach idle RPMs.
    - rad_gruchalski 3y ago
      > Remember to press both left and center pedals to stop To stop, not to slow down.
      - amenhotep 3y ago
        It's still not correct. You press the brake to stop. You press the clutch to not stall. They're separate concerns, or maybe more accurately one is only a response to the other - you clutch as you're about to stop because otherwise you'll stall, you don't brake and clutch at the same time because you decide to stop and not stall at the same time.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        3y ago