5 ms·

>At least the steering wheel and pedals still behave the same. For now, companies are experimenting with drive by wire. Don't think I like that concept.

shepherdjerred 3y ago
Why? Brake by wire is already a thing.
- dexwiz 3y ago
  Post ALB there isn’t the same feedback thru breaks as there are steering. Steering systems have been highly engineered so you can get feedback from the road while still having power assist.
- I_Am_Nous 3y ago
  If my steering wheel isn't connected to my front wheels mechanically, that's asking for a lot of trust. Previously a severe mechanical issue would be the only thing to worry about. Maybe on an EV with always connected and charged batteries it would be better, but on ICE I can imagine a number of ways the electrical system suddenly fails and now the wheel does nothing, even if just for a short lag. At least on brake by wire ICE systems I could let engine braking slow me if the brake system fails somehow (even if I have to blow the engine to save my life, worth the trade).
  - amluto 3y ago
    Having previously driven a car with a mildly unreliable power steering system, it’s an extremely good thing that the power steering was backed up with a mechanical linkage (that worked very well — it was surprisingly subtle when the power steering crapped out at 30mph). A drive-by-wire system had better be a lot more reliable and also notice impending failures.
    - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
      > it was surprisingly subtle when the power steering crapped out at 30mph It's not a problem at those speeds, having it crap out when turning slowly and sharply around fast traffic is much more likely to be deadly.
      - dotancohen 3y ago
        The opposite is true. Those old AMCs without power steering were just as easy to steer on the highway as any other car (once you managed to get up to speed) but the parking lot was a chore and parallel parking was neigh impossible.
        bombcar 3y ago
        Fancier power steering systems basically fully disengage at speed because you don’t need them; they’re for moving the wheels when you’re stopped or nearly so.
        dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
        I guess I got the wording wrong because that's exactly what I meant.
        amluto 3y ago
        The most dangerous situation I encountered was turning left across traffic from a stop.
        dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
        Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking about (and thought I wrote, but the downvotes say otherwise). If your steering assist conks out just as you're trying to turn at slow speed you could end up heading into oncoming traffic, at an angle at least. It's actually pretty dangerous, good thing you don't drive it any more.
  - otherme123 3y ago
    Mechanic connections can, and do, fail. Ask Ayrton Senna. AFAIK, steer by wire are already doing full redundancy, like it was a plane. There has been a number of plane accidents related to physical connection between the yoke and the actuators (cables loosing tension under high temperatures, or cut/trapped on a deck failure). Electric cables does not suffer that, and they are easily doubled. SbW makers are already making software that does constant surveilance of the system, something that traditional systems has never done. The number of dead people caused by the steering column going straight through their chest in a collision is huge. That shouldn't happen with SbW. I hate the trend towards car controls in a screen, but Drive by Wire sounds like a real advance towards better cars to me. DbW without redundancies and continuous tracking could be a safety issue, but with them I don't think it's an issue. Fly by Wire has a good safety record.
    - pompino 3y ago
      >Fly by Wire has a good safety record. Because there are dozens of people helping keep each plane safe.
- doubloon 3y ago
  Boeing.
- alexey-salmin 3y ago
  There must be a physical connection though? How do you stop if you're out of power? If not, I can only think of truck-like system where brakes are "on by default" and user input disactivates them.
userbinator 3y ago
Drive-by-wire is at least a decade old if not more.
culopatin 3y ago
Experimenting? It’s been around for a long time. My 1999 Jetta had it. It’s smoother and you can control the fuel adder on throttle opening from all angles. Sure, it’s not instant, but stabbing the gas in a non dbw is not great either. In electric cars there is no other way than dbw
- AsmaraHolding 3y ago
  A 1999 Jetta doesn't have steer-by-wire. Wikipedia says the first production car to have it was the 2013 Nissan Infiniti Q50.
  - maxdo 3y ago
    It had duplicated mechanics
  - culopatin 3y ago
    Well I see what you mean. Steer by wire is part of drive by wire if you want to be specific. But before that was a thing “drive by wire” meant a throttle body controller by the ECU.m for many years. So if you go to a shop and say DBW what the other end hears is “stepper throttle”
- gonzo41 3y ago
  It's be really cool if there were some giant high power potentiometer connected directly from the batter to the motors in an EV. Just smash the pedal, see a blast of plasma and you take off. Just like slot cars. I can't see a single downside to this :p
static_void_ 3y ago
Electronic power steering already exists. It's used in a lot of cars, and has been for at least 10 years. Your car may have one of these systems in it. In an electric power steering system there are steering angle and torque sensors that know what direction the wheel is turned an how hard it has turned, and this is connected to an electric motor that powers the gears to move the steering rack. There are still regulations in place that require a mechanical connection to the steering wheel and rack, but try and turn the wheel with the car off and see if your wheels move... But when the car is running when you turn the wheel you're just a voting remember in the system. There are no such regulations for throttles. Pretty much every car since the late 80s has electronic throttle control and there are no mechanical linkages from pedal to throttle body.
- Reason077 3y ago
  > “There are still regulations in place that require a mechanical connection to the steering wheel and rack” Are you sure? Fully “steer by wire” vehicles with no mechanical steering link are already in production. The Tesla Cybertruck is the most well-known example. Toyota/Lexus has also been demonstrating steer-by-wire for a while (Lexus RZ), and it will apparently ship in consumer vehicles later this year.
  - lokedhs 3y ago
    Are any of these cars available outside the US? From what I've been able to tell, US regulations are much weakest in this regard which is possibly why there are so many words cars there.
    - Reason077 3y ago
      The Lexus steer-by-wire tech is expected to ship in Europe later this year: https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-lexus-steer-by-wire-system-europe-from-2024/ https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-lexus-steer-by-wire-sys... (In some aspects the US automotive regulations are actually stricter than in Europe. For example, in Europe there are some vehicles (eg: Audi) where the wing mirrors are replaced by screens/cameras, but this is not permitted in the US. Adaptive matrix headlights are also not allowed in the US.)

shepherdjerred 3y ago

Why? Brake by wire is already a thing.

dexwiz 3y ago
Post ALB there isn’t the same feedback thru breaks as there are steering. Steering systems have been highly engineered so you can get feedback from the road while still having power assist.
I_Am_Nous 3y ago
If my steering wheel isn't connected to my front wheels mechanically, that's asking for a lot of trust. Previously a severe mechanical issue would be the only thing to worry about. Maybe on an EV with always connected and charged batteries it would be better, but on ICE I can imagine a number of ways the electrical system suddenly fails and now the wheel does nothing, even if just for a short lag. At least on brake by wire ICE systems I could let engine braking slow me if the brake system fails somehow (even if I have to blow the engine to save my life, worth the trade).
- amluto 3y ago
  Having previously driven a car with a mildly unreliable power steering system, it’s an extremely good thing that the power steering was backed up with a mechanical linkage (that worked very well — it was surprisingly subtle when the power steering crapped out at 30mph). A drive-by-wire system had better be a lot more reliable and also notice impending failures.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
    > it was surprisingly subtle when the power steering crapped out at 30mph It's not a problem at those speeds, having it crap out when turning slowly and sharply around fast traffic is much more likely to be deadly.
    - dotancohen 3y ago
      The opposite is true. Those old AMCs without power steering were just as easy to steer on the highway as any other car (once you managed to get up to speed) but the parking lot was a chore and parallel parking was neigh impossible.
      - bombcar 3y ago
        Fancier power steering systems basically fully disengage at speed because you don’t need them; they’re for moving the wheels when you’re stopped or nearly so.
      - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
        I guess I got the wording wrong because that's exactly what I meant.
        amluto 3y ago
        The most dangerous situation I encountered was turning left across traffic from a stop.
        dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
        Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking about (and thought I wrote, but the downvotes say otherwise). If your steering assist conks out just as you're trying to turn at slow speed you could end up heading into oncoming traffic, at an angle at least. It's actually pretty dangerous, good thing you don't drive it any more.
- otherme123 3y ago
  Mechanic connections can, and do, fail. Ask Ayrton Senna. AFAIK, steer by wire are already doing full redundancy, like it was a plane. There has been a number of plane accidents related to physical connection between the yoke and the actuators (cables loosing tension under high temperatures, or cut/trapped on a deck failure). Electric cables does not suffer that, and they are easily doubled. SbW makers are already making software that does constant surveilance of the system, something that traditional systems has never done. The number of dead people caused by the steering column going straight through their chest in a collision is huge. That shouldn't happen with SbW. I hate the trend towards car controls in a screen, but Drive by Wire sounds like a real advance towards better cars to me. DbW without redundancies and continuous tracking could be a safety issue, but with them I don't think it's an issue. Fly by Wire has a good safety record.
  - pompino 3y ago
    >Fly by Wire has a good safety record. Because there are dozens of people helping keep each plane safe.
doubloon 3y ago
Boeing.
alexey-salmin 3y ago
There must be a physical connection though? How do you stop if you're out of power? If not, I can only think of truck-like system where brakes are "on by default" and user input disactivates them.

userbinator 3y ago

Drive-by-wire is at least a decade old if not more.

culopatin 3y ago

Experimenting? It’s been around for a long time. My 1999 Jetta had it. It’s smoother and you can control the fuel adder on throttle opening from all angles. Sure, it’s not instant, but stabbing the gas in a non dbw is not great either. In electric cars there is no other way than dbw

AsmaraHolding 3y ago
A 1999 Jetta doesn't have steer-by-wire. Wikipedia says the first production car to have it was the 2013 Nissan Infiniti Q50.
- maxdo 3y ago
  It had duplicated mechanics
- culopatin 3y ago
  Well I see what you mean. Steer by wire is part of drive by wire if you want to be specific. But before that was a thing “drive by wire” meant a throttle body controller by the ECU.m for many years. So if you go to a shop and say DBW what the other end hears is “stepper throttle”
gonzo41 3y ago
It's be really cool if there were some giant high power potentiometer connected directly from the batter to the motors in an EV. Just smash the pedal, see a blast of plasma and you take off. Just like slot cars. I can't see a single downside to this :p

static_void_ 3y ago

Electronic power steering already exists. It's used in a lot of cars, and has been for at least 10 years. Your car may have one of these systems in it. In an electric power steering system there are steering angle and torque sensors that know what direction the wheel is turned an how hard it has turned, and this is connected to an electric motor that powers the gears to move the steering rack. There are still regulations in place that require a mechanical connection to the steering wheel and rack, but try and turn the wheel with the car off and see if your wheels move... But when the car is running when you turn the wheel you're just a voting remember in the system. There are no such regulations for throttles. Pretty much every car since the late 80s has electronic throttle control and there are no mechanical linkages from pedal to throttle body.

Reason077 3y ago
> “There are still regulations in place that require a mechanical connection to the steering wheel and rack” Are you sure? Fully “steer by wire” vehicles with no mechanical steering link are already in production. The Tesla Cybertruck is the most well-known example. Toyota/Lexus has also been demonstrating steer-by-wire for a while (Lexus RZ), and it will apparently ship in consumer vehicles later this year.
- lokedhs 3y ago
  Are any of these cars available outside the US? From what I've been able to tell, US regulations are much weakest in this regard which is possibly why there are so many words cars there.
  - Reason077 3y ago
    The Lexus steer-by-wire tech is expected to ship in Europe later this year: https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-lexus-steer-by-wire-system-europe-from-2024/ https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-lexus-steer-by-wire-sys... (In some aspects the US automotive regulations are actually stricter than in Europe. For example, in Europe there are some vehicles (eg: Audi) where the wing mirrors are replaced by screens/cameras, but this is not permitted in the US. Adaptive matrix headlights are also not allowed in the US.)