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But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn Are there really cars where the horn is not a

But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? IMHO the driving UX peaked in the 1960s, and was largely unchanged into the 2000s, until touch screens started taking over. Compare: https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/055a.jpg https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads... https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/2010-Lincoln-Town-Car-interior.jpg https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/2010... https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2017/07/Tesla-Model-3-interior.jpg https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2017/07/Tesla-Mod... At least the steering wheel and pedals still behave the same.

I_Am_Nous 3y ago
>At least the steering wheel and pedals still behave the same. For now, companies are experimenting with drive by wire. Don't think I like that concept.
- shepherdjerred 3y ago
  Why? Brake by wire is already a thing.
  - dexwiz 3y ago
    Post ALB there isn’t the same feedback thru breaks as there are steering. Steering systems have been highly engineered so you can get feedback from the road while still having power assist.
  - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
    If my steering wheel isn't connected to my front wheels mechanically, that's asking for a lot of trust. Previously a severe mechanical issue would be the only thing to worry about. Maybe on an EV with always connected and charged batteries it would be better, but on ICE I can imagine a number of ways the electrical system suddenly fails and now the wheel does nothing, even if just for a short lag. At least on brake by wire ICE systems I could let engine braking slow me if the brake system fails somehow (even if I have to blow the engine to save my life, worth the trade).
    - amluto 3y ago
      Having previously driven a car with a mildly unreliable power steering system, it’s an extremely good thing that the power steering was backed up with a mechanical linkage (that worked very well — it was surprisingly subtle when the power steering crapped out at 30mph). A drive-by-wire system had better be a lot more reliable and also notice impending failures.
      - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
        > it was surprisingly subtle when the power steering crapped out at 30mph It's not a problem at those speeds, having it crap out when turning slowly and sharply around fast traffic is much more likely to be deadly.
        dotancohen 3y ago
        The opposite is true. Those old AMCs without power steering were just as easy to steer on the highway as any other car (once you managed to get up to speed) but the parking lot was a chore and parallel parking was neigh impossible.
        bombcar 3y ago
        Fancier power steering systems basically fully disengage at speed because you don’t need them; they’re for moving the wheels when you’re stopped or nearly so.
        dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
        I guess I got the wording wrong because that's exactly what I meant.
        amluto 3y ago
        The most dangerous situation I encountered was turning left across traffic from a stop.
  - doubloon 3y ago
    Boeing.
  - alexey-salmin 3y ago
    There must be a physical connection though? How do you stop if you're out of power? If not, I can only think of truck-like system where brakes are "on by default" and user input disactivates them.
- userbinator 3y ago
  Drive-by-wire is at least a decade old if not more.
- culopatin 3y ago
  Experimenting? It’s been around for a long time. My 1999 Jetta had it. It’s smoother and you can control the fuel adder on throttle opening from all angles. Sure, it’s not instant, but stabbing the gas in a non dbw is not great either. In electric cars there is no other way than dbw
  - AsmaraHolding 3y ago
    A 1999 Jetta doesn't have steer-by-wire. Wikipedia says the first production car to have it was the 2013 Nissan Infiniti Q50.
    - maxdo 3y ago
      It had duplicated mechanics
    - culopatin 3y ago
      Well I see what you mean. Steer by wire is part of drive by wire if you want to be specific. But before that was a thing “drive by wire” meant a throttle body controller by the ECU.m for many years. So if you go to a shop and say DBW what the other end hears is “stepper throttle”
  - gonzo41 3y ago
    It's be really cool if there were some giant high power potentiometer connected directly from the batter to the motors in an EV. Just smash the pedal, see a blast of plasma and you take off. Just like slot cars. I can't see a single downside to this :p
- static_void_ 3y ago
  Electronic power steering already exists. It's used in a lot of cars, and has been for at least 10 years. Your car may have one of these systems in it. In an electric power steering system there are steering angle and torque sensors that know what direction the wheel is turned an how hard it has turned, and this is connected to an electric motor that powers the gears to move the steering rack. There are still regulations in place that require a mechanical connection to the steering wheel and rack, but try and turn the wheel with the car off and see if your wheels move... But when the car is running when you turn the wheel you're just a voting remember in the system. There are no such regulations for throttles. Pretty much every car since the late 80s has electronic throttle control and there are no mechanical linkages from pedal to throttle body.
  - Reason077 3y ago
    > “There are still regulations in place that require a mechanical connection to the steering wheel and rack” Are you sure? Fully “steer by wire” vehicles with no mechanical steering link are already in production. The Tesla Cybertruck is the most well-known example. Toyota/Lexus has also been demonstrating steer-by-wire for a while (Lexus RZ), and it will apparently ship in consumer vehicles later this year.
    - lokedhs 3y ago
      Are any of these cars available outside the US? From what I've been able to tell, US regulations are much weakest in this regard which is possibly why there are so many words cars there.
      - Reason077 3y ago
        The Lexus steer-by-wire tech is expected to ship in Europe later this year: https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-lexus-steer-by-wire-system-europe-from-2024/ https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-lexus-steer-by-wire-sys... (In some aspects the US automotive regulations are actually stricter than in Europe. For example, in Europe there are some vehicles (eg: Audi) where the wing mirrors are replaced by screens/cameras, but this is not permitted in the US. Adaptive matrix headlights are also not allowed in the US.)
c22 3y ago
The pedals do not behave the same.
- tempestn 3y ago
  Nor does the steering yoke.
- userbinator 3y ago
  You mean you don't press the left one to stop, and the right one to go?
  - theGnuMe 3y ago
    No, it’s the feedback loop. You feel the hydraulic system for the brakes and the steering. If you have an accelerator cable then you feel that tension as well… but the accelerator feel is less important.
  - spdustin 3y ago
    You don't feel the hydraulic feedback in the brake pedal (just the ABS buzzing), and gas pedals in many modern EFI vehicles feel more like foot-operated potentiometers than throttle linkages.
    - magicalhippo 3y ago
      > gas pedals in many modern EFI vehicles feel more like foot-operated potentiometers than throttle linkages. In my EV it literally is a potentiometer. I really miss the feel of a physical throttle linkage on the snow and ice, I feel it's much more difficult to judge grip. Also, since it's just a pot, I don't know why there's not a speed mode for it, it to make it operate the cruise control speed set-point rather than torque.
      - user_7832 3y ago
        > I really miss the feel of a physical throttle linkage on the snow and ice, I feel it's much more difficult to judge grip. The throttle is separated from the wheels/ground by the transmission and the whole engine, which makes me wonder if the response you felt probably was a combination of eg rpm/physical vibration and a few other factors. It should be possible to recreate these even in an EV, then.
threeseed 3y ago
I think the issue with the horn is referring to the Tesla Model S. And specifically the horn button being capacitive co-located with the voice assistance and windscreen wiper buttons. Which in a safety situation was difficult to locate and press.
- userbinator 3y ago
  Not the least bit helped by the fact that there seem to be several models all called the "Model S", but with very different controls. https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/models/en_us/GUID-DEB259CC-ABAC-4BFC-8D10-B7B1BBCFCB1F.html https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/models/en_us/GUID-DEB259C... For vehicles manufactured as of approximately January 2024: To sound the horn, press the middle of the steering yoke (or steering wheel). For vehicles manufactured prior to approximately January 2024: To sound the horn, press and hold the horn button on the right side of the steering yoke (or steering wheel). "press and hold" doesn't seem like it'd be easy to do if all you wanted was a quick toot.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    Thanks for that link, which has images. Jesus, the pre-2024 horn is insane. It's one tiny button among many on the right side (of that stupid yoke, but I digress...) The whole point of having the horn in the middle of the steering wheel is you can just mash it with your palm, no need to hunt for anything. Really wonder how that ever got into a production car in the first place.
    - userbinator 3y ago
      The whole point of having the horn in the middle of the steering wheel is you can just mash it with your palm, no need to hunt for anything. One can easily see this "meme" if one searches for images of "driver honking horn": https://www.google.com/search?q=driver+honking+horn&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=driver+honking+horn&tbm=isch
      - rjmunro 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
> Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? Yes: https://antiquecarmuseumofiowa.org/wp-content/uploads/1913-Ford-Roadster_1200x500.jpg https://antiquecarmuseumofiowa.org/wp-content/uploads/1913-F... Well ... "are" is kinda stretching it...
- onionisafruit 3y ago
  My grandmother used to have a car where the horn was a button at the end of one of the stems. I think it was on the same stem that controlled the wipers. I wish I remembered what kind of car it was. I think it was from the 40s.
  - lokedhs 3y ago
    The old Mini had that. I remember seeing it in the 80's.
  - yaky 3y ago
    First generation Chevy Volt (2011-2016) has a button at the end of the left stem that sounds an alternative polite (aka "pedestrian") horn. It's several very rapid, but somewhat quiet honks, that sound like "brrrap".
    - Tagbert 3y ago
      I like that. I used to have a car that would give that kind of polite honk with a light press and a louder honk with a harder press. I’ve always wished that were still a thing.
  - brabel 3y ago
    My parents had one of these... I believe it was Ford Corcel from 1978 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Corcel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Corcel), a South American model, according to Wikipedia, based on Renault 12.
  - sandermvanvliet 3y ago
    My Land Rover Defender has that too and that’s from early 2000, think they kept that for quite a bit longer than that too.
richardw 3y ago
Except for radios. It's very annoying that every radio had a different UX, likely in the name of innovation and differentiation. I think that's a safety issue for e.g. rental cars.
- consp 3y ago
  The radio is a feature in which a move to change station should not take more than a fraction oft a second. If it takes more you should stop. That is valid for any action but for some reason people start adjusting their entire audio setup while driving...
- userbinator 3y ago
  The two-knob radio was a standard for a long time, and it looks like they're still made.
rkagerer 3y ago
At least the steering wheel and pedals still behave the same. Don't give them ideas...
- jojobas 3y ago
  Tesla Cybertruck uses steer-by-wire with almost no redundancy. Electric power steering was bad enough to cause crashes, this is just ambulance chaser's dream.
  - gsich 3y ago
    >steer-by-wire This is the norm for most cars with servo steering.
    - jojobas 3y ago
      No. Almost all cars except some concepts and prototypes have mechanical link between the steering wheel and the steering rack. Even if the link is augmented by a hydraulic or electronic booster. If a booster fails you have a chance of overpowering it, it's not that strong. A faulty steer-by-wire will swing you into the oncoming lane with no recourse.
      - oblio 3y ago
        I think the lack of redundancy is the issue. Redundant electrical connections can be very robust otherwise they wouldn't put them in F-35s.
        pompino 3y ago
        But no ejection seats to escape a collision.
        tiagod 3y ago
        The F-35 took like 25 years and a staggering amount of billions to develop...
inferiorhuman 3y ago
Peugeot through the 505 put the horn button on a stalk on the steering column. The 505 ended production for most of the world in the early 90s and I've not seen any of their more modern cars so I've no idea how long that design lasted. The French made some really… interesting choices with their cars.
nly 3y ago
I've been driving for 15 years and only ever used my horn once.
- donatj 3y ago
  In fifteen years you’ve never been stuck behind someone stopped at a green light? You’ve never had to give someone a “hey don’t back into me” toot in a parking lot? You’ve never seen your friend Ricky, on the sidewalk?
- oblio 3y ago
  And in that situation it probably was easy to use because most likely you REALLY needed it, which these laws are trying to make sure happens: it's easily accessible.
  - throwaway82063 3y ago
    I disagree, whenever in the past I needed to use the honk, I've failed to do so because it's hard to press and requires you to take one hand off the wheel, which is the last of your instincts when you panicking, or both if you are juggling your gearstick.
    - itishappy 3y ago
      Your instincts suck. Sorry to be blunt. It's similar to correcting a slide: your brain won't do it automatically, but it's worth learning because it's a safety feature. If somebody enters your lane at speed, the safest thing to do is to let them know you're there. Swerving or breaking in response multiplies the problem, as now there are two cars driving erratically. The horn won't always resolve everything, but it's by far the most effective way to get somebody's attention in a hurry.
      - throwaway82063 3y ago
        >Swerving or breaking in response multiplies the problem, as now there are two cars driving erratically. Holding your steering wheel with a single hand will cause you to drive erratically too. >The horn won't always resolve everything, but it's by far the most effective way to get somebody's attention in a hurry. That's why it should be possible to activate it with an easy to reach button or lever, preferably next to the emergency lights, instead of a heavy pressure button right in the center of the steering wheel.
mzs 3y ago
> Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? For a while Ford was putting the horn on the turn signal stalk, I hated it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/l08qll/does_anyone_else_remember_when_ford_in_their/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/l08q...

I_Am_Nous 3y ago

>At least the steering wheel and pedals still behave the same. For now, companies are experimenting with drive by wire. Don't think I like that concept.

shepherdjerred 3y ago
Why? Brake by wire is already a thing.
- dexwiz 3y ago
  Post ALB there isn’t the same feedback thru breaks as there are steering. Steering systems have been highly engineered so you can get feedback from the road while still having power assist.
- I_Am_Nous 3y ago
  If my steering wheel isn't connected to my front wheels mechanically, that's asking for a lot of trust. Previously a severe mechanical issue would be the only thing to worry about. Maybe on an EV with always connected and charged batteries it would be better, but on ICE I can imagine a number of ways the electrical system suddenly fails and now the wheel does nothing, even if just for a short lag. At least on brake by wire ICE systems I could let engine braking slow me if the brake system fails somehow (even if I have to blow the engine to save my life, worth the trade).
  - amluto 3y ago
    Having previously driven a car with a mildly unreliable power steering system, it’s an extremely good thing that the power steering was backed up with a mechanical linkage (that worked very well — it was surprisingly subtle when the power steering crapped out at 30mph). A drive-by-wire system had better be a lot more reliable and also notice impending failures.
    - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
      > it was surprisingly subtle when the power steering crapped out at 30mph It's not a problem at those speeds, having it crap out when turning slowly and sharply around fast traffic is much more likely to be deadly.
      - dotancohen 3y ago
        The opposite is true. Those old AMCs without power steering were just as easy to steer on the highway as any other car (once you managed to get up to speed) but the parking lot was a chore and parallel parking was neigh impossible.
        bombcar 3y ago
        Fancier power steering systems basically fully disengage at speed because you don’t need them; they’re for moving the wheels when you’re stopped or nearly so.
        dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
        I guess I got the wording wrong because that's exactly what I meant.
        amluto 3y ago
        The most dangerous situation I encountered was turning left across traffic from a stop.
- doubloon 3y ago
  Boeing.
- alexey-salmin 3y ago
  There must be a physical connection though? How do you stop if you're out of power? If not, I can only think of truck-like system where brakes are "on by default" and user input disactivates them.
userbinator 3y ago
Drive-by-wire is at least a decade old if not more.
culopatin 3y ago
Experimenting? It’s been around for a long time. My 1999 Jetta had it. It’s smoother and you can control the fuel adder on throttle opening from all angles. Sure, it’s not instant, but stabbing the gas in a non dbw is not great either. In electric cars there is no other way than dbw
- AsmaraHolding 3y ago
  A 1999 Jetta doesn't have steer-by-wire. Wikipedia says the first production car to have it was the 2013 Nissan Infiniti Q50.
  - maxdo 3y ago
    It had duplicated mechanics
  - culopatin 3y ago
    Well I see what you mean. Steer by wire is part of drive by wire if you want to be specific. But before that was a thing “drive by wire” meant a throttle body controller by the ECU.m for many years. So if you go to a shop and say DBW what the other end hears is “stepper throttle”
- gonzo41 3y ago
  It's be really cool if there were some giant high power potentiometer connected directly from the batter to the motors in an EV. Just smash the pedal, see a blast of plasma and you take off. Just like slot cars. I can't see a single downside to this :p
static_void_ 3y ago
Electronic power steering already exists. It's used in a lot of cars, and has been for at least 10 years. Your car may have one of these systems in it. In an electric power steering system there are steering angle and torque sensors that know what direction the wheel is turned an how hard it has turned, and this is connected to an electric motor that powers the gears to move the steering rack. There are still regulations in place that require a mechanical connection to the steering wheel and rack, but try and turn the wheel with the car off and see if your wheels move... But when the car is running when you turn the wheel you're just a voting remember in the system. There are no such regulations for throttles. Pretty much every car since the late 80s has electronic throttle control and there are no mechanical linkages from pedal to throttle body.
- Reason077 3y ago
  > “There are still regulations in place that require a mechanical connection to the steering wheel and rack” Are you sure? Fully “steer by wire” vehicles with no mechanical steering link are already in production. The Tesla Cybertruck is the most well-known example. Toyota/Lexus has also been demonstrating steer-by-wire for a while (Lexus RZ), and it will apparently ship in consumer vehicles later this year.
  - lokedhs 3y ago
    Are any of these cars available outside the US? From what I've been able to tell, US regulations are much weakest in this regard which is possibly why there are so many words cars there.
    - Reason077 3y ago
      The Lexus steer-by-wire tech is expected to ship in Europe later this year: https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-lexus-steer-by-wire-system-europe-from-2024/ https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-lexus-steer-by-wire-sys... (In some aspects the US automotive regulations are actually stricter than in Europe. For example, in Europe there are some vehicles (eg: Audi) where the wing mirrors are replaced by screens/cameras, but this is not permitted in the US. Adaptive matrix headlights are also not allowed in the US.)

c22 3y ago

The pedals do not behave the same.

tempestn 3y ago
Nor does the steering yoke.
userbinator 3y ago
You mean you don't press the left one to stop, and the right one to go?
- theGnuMe 3y ago
  No, it’s the feedback loop. You feel the hydraulic system for the brakes and the steering. If you have an accelerator cable then you feel that tension as well… but the accelerator feel is less important.
- spdustin 3y ago
  You don't feel the hydraulic feedback in the brake pedal (just the ABS buzzing), and gas pedals in many modern EFI vehicles feel more like foot-operated potentiometers than throttle linkages.
  - magicalhippo 3y ago
    > gas pedals in many modern EFI vehicles feel more like foot-operated potentiometers than throttle linkages. In my EV it literally is a potentiometer. I really miss the feel of a physical throttle linkage on the snow and ice, I feel it's much more difficult to judge grip. Also, since it's just a pot, I don't know why there's not a speed mode for it, it to make it operate the cruise control speed set-point rather than torque.
    - user_7832 3y ago
      > I really miss the feel of a physical throttle linkage on the snow and ice, I feel it's much more difficult to judge grip. The throttle is separated from the wheels/ground by the transmission and the whole engine, which makes me wonder if the response you felt probably was a combination of eg rpm/physical vibration and a few other factors. It should be possible to recreate these even in an EV, then.

threeseed 3y ago

I think the issue with the horn is referring to the Tesla Model S. And specifically the horn button being capacitive co-located with the voice assistance and windscreen wiper buttons. Which in a safety situation was difficult to locate and press.

userbinator 3y ago
Not the least bit helped by the fact that there seem to be several models all called the "Model S", but with very different controls. https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/models/en_us/GUID-DEB259CC-ABAC-4BFC-8D10-B7B1BBCFCB1F.html https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/models/en_us/GUID-DEB259C... For vehicles manufactured as of approximately January 2024: To sound the horn, press the middle of the steering yoke (or steering wheel). For vehicles manufactured prior to approximately January 2024: To sound the horn, press and hold the horn button on the right side of the steering yoke (or steering wheel). "press and hold" doesn't seem like it'd be easy to do if all you wanted was a quick toot.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  Thanks for that link, which has images. Jesus, the pre-2024 horn is insane. It's one tiny button among many on the right side (of that stupid yoke, but I digress...) The whole point of having the horn in the middle of the steering wheel is you can just mash it with your palm, no need to hunt for anything. Really wonder how that ever got into a production car in the first place.
  - userbinator 3y ago
    The whole point of having the horn in the middle of the steering wheel is you can just mash it with your palm, no need to hunt for anything. One can easily see this "meme" if one searches for images of "driver honking horn": https://www.google.com/search?q=driver+honking+horn&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=driver+honking+horn&tbm=isch
    - rjmunro 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

> Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? Yes: https://antiquecarmuseumofiowa.org/wp-content/uploads/1913-Ford-Roadster_1200x500.jpg https://antiquecarmuseumofiowa.org/wp-content/uploads/1913-F... Well ... "are" is kinda stretching it...

onionisafruit 3y ago
My grandmother used to have a car where the horn was a button at the end of one of the stems. I think it was on the same stem that controlled the wipers. I wish I remembered what kind of car it was. I think it was from the 40s.
- lokedhs 3y ago
  The old Mini had that. I remember seeing it in the 80's.
- yaky 3y ago
  First generation Chevy Volt (2011-2016) has a button at the end of the left stem that sounds an alternative polite (aka "pedestrian") horn. It's several very rapid, but somewhat quiet honks, that sound like "brrrap".
  - Tagbert 3y ago
    I like that. I used to have a car that would give that kind of polite honk with a light press and a louder honk with a harder press. I’ve always wished that were still a thing.
- brabel 3y ago
  My parents had one of these... I believe it was Ford Corcel from 1978 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Corcel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Corcel), a South American model, according to Wikipedia, based on Renault 12.
- sandermvanvliet 3y ago
  My Land Rover Defender has that too and that’s from early 2000, think they kept that for quite a bit longer than that too.

richardw 3y ago

Except for radios. It's very annoying that every radio had a different UX, likely in the name of innovation and differentiation. I think that's a safety issue for e.g. rental cars.

consp 3y ago
The radio is a feature in which a move to change station should not take more than a fraction oft a second. If it takes more you should stop. That is valid for any action but for some reason people start adjusting their entire audio setup while driving...
userbinator 3y ago
The two-knob radio was a standard for a long time, and it looks like they're still made.

rkagerer 3y ago

At least the steering wheel and pedals still behave the same. Don't give them ideas...

jojobas 3y ago
Tesla Cybertruck uses steer-by-wire with almost no redundancy. Electric power steering was bad enough to cause crashes, this is just ambulance chaser's dream.
- gsich 3y ago
  >steer-by-wire This is the norm for most cars with servo steering.
  - jojobas 3y ago
    No. Almost all cars except some concepts and prototypes have mechanical link between the steering wheel and the steering rack. Even if the link is augmented by a hydraulic or electronic booster. If a booster fails you have a chance of overpowering it, it's not that strong. A faulty steer-by-wire will swing you into the oncoming lane with no recourse.
    - oblio 3y ago
      I think the lack of redundancy is the issue. Redundant electrical connections can be very robust otherwise they wouldn't put them in F-35s.
      - pompino 3y ago
        But no ejection seats to escape a collision.
      - tiagod 3y ago
        The F-35 took like 25 years and a staggering amount of billions to develop...

inferiorhuman 3y ago

Peugeot through the 505 put the horn button on a stalk on the steering column. The 505 ended production for most of the world in the early 90s and I've not seen any of their more modern cars so I've no idea how long that design lasted. The French made some really… interesting choices with their cars.

nly 3y ago

I've been driving for 15 years and only ever used my horn once.

donatj 3y ago
In fifteen years you’ve never been stuck behind someone stopped at a green light? You’ve never had to give someone a “hey don’t back into me” toot in a parking lot? You’ve never seen your friend Ricky, on the sidewalk?
oblio 3y ago
And in that situation it probably was easy to use because most likely you REALLY needed it, which these laws are trying to make sure happens: it's easily accessible.
- throwaway82063 3y ago
  I disagree, whenever in the past I needed to use the honk, I've failed to do so because it's hard to press and requires you to take one hand off the wheel, which is the last of your instincts when you panicking, or both if you are juggling your gearstick.
  - itishappy 3y ago
    Your instincts suck. Sorry to be blunt. It's similar to correcting a slide: your brain won't do it automatically, but it's worth learning because it's a safety feature. If somebody enters your lane at speed, the safest thing to do is to let them know you're there. Swerving or breaking in response multiplies the problem, as now there are two cars driving erratically. The horn won't always resolve everything, but it's by far the most effective way to get somebody's attention in a hurry.
    - throwaway82063 3y ago
      >Swerving or breaking in response multiplies the problem, as now there are two cars driving erratically. Holding your steering wheel with a single hand will cause you to drive erratically too. >The horn won't always resolve everything, but it's by far the most effective way to get somebody's attention in a hurry. That's why it should be possible to activate it with an easy to reach button or lever, preferably next to the emergency lights, instead of a heavy pressure button right in the center of the steering wheel.

mzs 3y ago

> Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? For a while Ford was putting the horn on the turn signal stalk, I hated it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/l08qll/does_anyone_else_remember_when_ford_in_their/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/l08q...