10 ms·

> you're stuck with MacOS Interesting way of thinking about probably the biggest draw of the hardware.

Dah00n 3y ago
Depends. To me, software is the thing that will keep me from Apple products. IMO Linux and Android are light-years ahead and are becoming even further ahead every year.
- babypuncher 3y ago
  I have a hard time considering Linux "light years ahead" when they still can't even figure how to do HDR.
  - spaceman_2020 3y ago
    My daily driver before this was Linux and anyone who says "Linux is light years ahead" is kidding themselves You have to set up a bash script to do something as basic as change the scrollwheel speed. Bluetooth is extremely spotty. Installing most software is still a pain unless you know all sorts of terminal-fu
    - sensanaty 3y ago
      You have to install software like UnnaturalScrollWheels or Smooze to get sensible mouse scrolling behavior out of MacOS (unless you use the horrific monstrosity of that Apple mouse that you can't use and charge at the same time). You have to install software like Rectangle to get actual window tiling + shortcuts for window tiling. You have to install Raycast/Butler to have a non-shit Finder alternative. There's dozens of basic UI/UX things Apple gets wrong that can only be fixed via either building your own hacks or paying for some ludicrously priced proprietary software (for example Smooze Pro). I could go on, there's many basic features MacOS has been missing for going on a decade, let's not pretend they get it all right either.
      - DinaCoder99 3y ago
        How do you fix the keybindings on linux short of changing hundreds of separate software packages? Spoiler, I've and you can't. Why are there about eighteen million packages implementing each component on linux, each subtly broken and offering a different set of features? Because the community can't agree on anything (except keybindings adopted from the IBM PC, apparently) or commit to providing any single package that actually addresses all user needs. Of course I don't expect everyone to share my opinions on what sane keybindings are, let alone what good software is in general, I'm just trying to illustrate how ridiculous you sound if you're trying to come off as engaging in the topic in good faith. I think it's pretty obvious why people prefer macos, personally, even if I don't agree with all the decisions apple makes for you.
        Dah00n 3y ago
        Even if we say we agree (which we don't) how is this worse? Is a 25 gigabyte Windows 11 install better? I'd take this (IMO unrealistic comparison) over Microsofts and Apples way to do things any day.
    - Dah00n 3y ago
      I've used Linux on and off as both daily driver, dual boot and in my homelab. I'm definitely not kidding myself when I say I feel that for me, Linux is far ahead. Nothing you wrote changes that, even though I don't really agree with it. I won't add a long list of why as others have already done that, but saying “agree with me or you are wrong” as you basically did is just.... yeah. You are wrong, and it is a bit strange you think you know better than me what is best for me just because you like Apple better.
  - sensanaty 3y ago
    Can any OS? I've got an (apparently) HDR-capable monitor but genuinely can't tell much of a difference on Win10/11, any Linux distro I've ever tried and my Macbooks provided by my work. The whole HDR thing seems more like a meme or weird flex type of thing to me, I've never noticed it ever really making a difference for me. Also a weird hill to die on when talking about relative strengths of each platform, but you do you.
    - babypuncher 3y ago
      I use HDR all the time in Windows. Most newer AAA games support it, all my 4k movies, and being able to make true HDR photos and video is nice. You won't notice a difference most of the time in normal desktop use because most desktop apps and the web are all SRGB, and get tone mapped accordingly when HDR is enabled. To really notice a difference with HDR content though, you need a good HDR monitor and not just one with basic DisplayHDR 400 certification, and either an OLED panel or mini LED full array local dimming. Windows' HDR implementation is far from perfect (the gamma tracking on SRGB content is incorrect, for example), but it's a far cry from Linux where HDR support just doesn't even exist. I can't even realistically use Linux as an OS for a home theater PC anymore. macOS is probably the gold standard when it comes to polished HDR support, especially with mixed mode use (HDR and SDR content on screen at the same time)
- threeseed 3y ago
  > IMO Linux and Android are light-years ahead Linux on the Desktop has finally arrived !
  - Dah00n 3y ago
    It has always been there and it has always been better for some people. Nothing has changed. The day Linux on the desktop arrive, for the masses as meant in the meme, is the day Linux dies.
- DinaCoder99 3y ago
  I hardly expect folks on HN to have normal opinions about the usability of linux, but duly noted.
aae42 3y ago
i'd say the M processors are the biggest draw... but yea, i agree, probably the 2nd biggest draw
layer8 3y ago
Nah, it’s the single reason I have zero interest in Mac hardware.
sensanaty 3y ago
Good lord no, the hardware is the actual good part of these machines, the OS is a piece of crap hobbled by catering to the lowest common denominator. I wish I could just wipe it off my work M3 pro, cause it drives me insane on the daily
- DinaCoder99 3y ago
  > catering to the lowest common denominator Ah this is why technical professionals all use linux, right?
  - sensanaty 3y ago
    Yes? Windows and Linux are by far the majority for most software work according to the SO Developer Survey[0]. Going by the survey, MacOS is 3rd after Win/Linux (of the 3 possible options). [0] https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/#section-most-popular-technologies-operating-system https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/#section-most-popular-t...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]

Depends. To me, software is the thing that will keep me from Apple products. IMO Linux and Android are light-years ahead and are becoming even further ahead every year.

babypuncher 3y ago
I have a hard time considering Linux "light years ahead" when they still can't even figure how to do HDR.
- spaceman_2020 3y ago
  My daily driver before this was Linux and anyone who says "Linux is light years ahead" is kidding themselves You have to set up a bash script to do something as basic as change the scrollwheel speed. Bluetooth is extremely spotty. Installing most software is still a pain unless you know all sorts of terminal-fu
  - sensanaty 3y ago
    You have to install software like UnnaturalScrollWheels or Smooze to get sensible mouse scrolling behavior out of MacOS (unless you use the horrific monstrosity of that Apple mouse that you can't use and charge at the same time). You have to install software like Rectangle to get actual window tiling + shortcuts for window tiling. You have to install Raycast/Butler to have a non-shit Finder alternative. There's dozens of basic UI/UX things Apple gets wrong that can only be fixed via either building your own hacks or paying for some ludicrously priced proprietary software (for example Smooze Pro). I could go on, there's many basic features MacOS has been missing for going on a decade, let's not pretend they get it all right either.
    - DinaCoder99 3y ago
      How do you fix the keybindings on linux short of changing hundreds of separate software packages? Spoiler, I've and you can't. Why are there about eighteen million packages implementing each component on linux, each subtly broken and offering a different set of features? Because the community can't agree on anything (except keybindings adopted from the IBM PC, apparently) or commit to providing any single package that actually addresses all user needs. Of course I don't expect everyone to share my opinions on what sane keybindings are, let alone what good software is in general, I'm just trying to illustrate how ridiculous you sound if you're trying to come off as engaging in the topic in good faith. I think it's pretty obvious why people prefer macos, personally, even if I don't agree with all the decisions apple makes for you.
      - Dah00n 3y ago
        Even if we say we agree (which we don't) how is this worse? Is a 25 gigabyte Windows 11 install better? I'd take this (IMO unrealistic comparison) over Microsofts and Apples way to do things any day.
  - Dah00n 3y ago
    I've used Linux on and off as both daily driver, dual boot and in my homelab. I'm definitely not kidding myself when I say I feel that for me, Linux is far ahead. Nothing you wrote changes that, even though I don't really agree with it. I won't add a long list of why as others have already done that, but saying “agree with me or you are wrong” as you basically did is just.... yeah. You are wrong, and it is a bit strange you think you know better than me what is best for me just because you like Apple better.
- sensanaty 3y ago
  Can any OS? I've got an (apparently) HDR-capable monitor but genuinely can't tell much of a difference on Win10/11, any Linux distro I've ever tried and my Macbooks provided by my work. The whole HDR thing seems more like a meme or weird flex type of thing to me, I've never noticed it ever really making a difference for me. Also a weird hill to die on when talking about relative strengths of each platform, but you do you.
  - babypuncher 3y ago
    I use HDR all the time in Windows. Most newer AAA games support it, all my 4k movies, and being able to make true HDR photos and video is nice. You won't notice a difference most of the time in normal desktop use because most desktop apps and the web are all SRGB, and get tone mapped accordingly when HDR is enabled. To really notice a difference with HDR content though, you need a good HDR monitor and not just one with basic DisplayHDR 400 certification, and either an OLED panel or mini LED full array local dimming. Windows' HDR implementation is far from perfect (the gamma tracking on SRGB content is incorrect, for example), but it's a far cry from Linux where HDR support just doesn't even exist. I can't even realistically use Linux as an OS for a home theater PC anymore. macOS is probably the gold standard when it comes to polished HDR support, especially with mixed mode use (HDR and SDR content on screen at the same time)
threeseed 3y ago
> IMO Linux and Android are light-years ahead Linux on the Desktop has finally arrived !
- Dah00n 3y ago
  It has always been there and it has always been better for some people. Nothing has changed. The day Linux on the desktop arrive, for the masses as meant in the meme, is the day Linux dies.
DinaCoder99 3y ago
I hardly expect folks on HN to have normal opinions about the usability of linux, but duly noted.

aae42 3y ago

i'd say the M processors are the biggest draw... but yea, i agree, probably the 2nd biggest draw

layer8 3y ago

Nah, it’s the single reason I have zero interest in Mac hardware.

sensanaty 3y ago

Good lord no, the hardware is the actual good part of these machines, the OS is a piece of crap hobbled by catering to the lowest common denominator. I wish I could just wipe it off my work M3 pro, cause it drives me insane on the daily

DinaCoder99 3y ago
> catering to the lowest common denominator Ah this is why technical professionals all use linux, right?
- sensanaty 3y ago
  Yes? Windows and Linux are by far the majority for most software work according to the SO Developer Survey[0]. Going by the survey, MacOS is 3rd after Win/Linux (of the 3 possible options). [0] https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/#section-most-popular-technologies-operating-system https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/#section-most-popular-t...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]