4 ms·

> Follow the money. If you follow the money, you can see it flowing in to Apple's bank account from consumers.

johnnyanmac 3y ago
sure, trillion dollar company invested hundreds of billions over a decade to secure their own supply chain from parts to distribution. But I don't think every other OEM would have the same success even if it ended up being higher quality.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  They became a trillion dollar company by doing that. There was nothing stopping other enormous companies to compete on quality and customer service, but they decided against that. Follow the money indeed...
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >There was nothing stopping other enormous companies to compete on quality and customer service, but they decided against that. I mean, are we pretending that Microsoft also isn't a trillion dollar company? They are the only one with an incentive to do that strategy, but they probably got a good share of money from licensing their platform to other OEMs. The next closest thing to "full OS vertical integration" are game consoles. Specialized devices focused on entertainment instead of general purpose ones.
    - carlosjobim 3y ago
      Microsoft became a trillion dollar company with another approach, yes, you're right. Walmart became a trillion dollar company doing completely different things. Nobody is pretending anything. But when somebody says "follow the money" as the explanation to why other brands make crap laptops, I think it is fair to point out that most money goes to the company that makes laptops that aren't crap.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        >Microsoft became a trillion dollar company with another approach, yes, you're right. Walmart became a trillion dollar company doing completely different things. Nobody is pretending anything. your point here more or less argues with your point above and goes back to what I was trying to tell you. "Follow the money" doesn't mean "follow the money of the biggest companies that you only tangentially compete with". It means "understand the business in question and use their motivation for money to figure out their priorities". Take a look at what makes Microsoft money, then what makes HP/Acer/Lenovo/Razer/etc. money, and even what makes Intel/Nvidia/AMD money. Now ask how much "fixing a proper sleep mode" will make any of these entities. That probably gives some clue on why no one has solved this yet. >I think it is fair to point out that most money goes to the company that makes laptops that aren't crap. I think I explained this above, but I should emphasize that we both know the best product doesn't always make the most money.
        carlosjobim 3y ago
        >I think I explained this above, but I should emphasize that we both know the best product doesn't always make the most money. Look at the thread title, look at what specific products are being discussed in the thread. There is no dispute that for laptop computers, the best product is making the most money. And I'd argue that it is the case for smart phones as well. There is a market that is probably in the size of millions of people who would love to buy a non-Apple laptop that was a bit closer to the Macbook in quality. But other manufacturers don't seem to give a damn, even though Apple has demonstrated that it pays off making quality products and caring for the customer. Everybody would benefit from better competition.
acdha 3y ago
This is a lazy troll - for example, note how conspicuously people making that claim are unable to identify specific equivalent hardware at significantly lower prices or any discussion of the total cost of ownership over the service life of the device. Simply repeating a cliche forum comment doesn’t contribute anything like those details could.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  > note how conspicuously people making that claim are unable to identify specific equivalent hardware At this rate, if you show someone a laptop that's genuinely better than a Macbook they'll complain that it's missing a notch. Setting a nebulous standard of "equivalent hardware" is a lazy goalpost intended to waste the time of good-faith commentators. It's an ivory throne in the swamp, if it suits you.
  - acdha 3y ago
    > At this rate, if you show someone a laptop that's genuinely better than a Macbook they'll complain that it's missing a notch. Okay, let’s test that: try being the first one in the thread to do so and see what responses you get.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      I did: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39592984 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39592984 Nobody seems to have replied. Do you want the honors of telling me there's no glass trackpad?
      - acdha 3y ago
        You didn’t, actually. You listed a vague description which could apply to multiple models and years and it would hardly make sense to compare an old used device to any new one. Now, if we look at Lenovo’s current Ideapad lineup we start to see something interesting: most of them have these crappy low-res displays and once you’re talking similar display quality, you are shockingly looking at similar prices: https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-i7-1255U-Graphics-Thunderbolt4-Fingerprint/dp/B0BYS7PKN1 https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-i7-1255U-Graphics-Thunderbolt4...

sure, trillion dollar company invested hundreds of billions over a decade to secure their own supply chain from parts to distribution. But I don't think every other OEM would have the same success even if it ended up being higher quality.

carlosjobim 3y ago
They became a trillion dollar company by doing that. There was nothing stopping other enormous companies to compete on quality and customer service, but they decided against that. Follow the money indeed...
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >There was nothing stopping other enormous companies to compete on quality and customer service, but they decided against that. I mean, are we pretending that Microsoft also isn't a trillion dollar company? They are the only one with an incentive to do that strategy, but they probably got a good share of money from licensing their platform to other OEMs. The next closest thing to "full OS vertical integration" are game consoles. Specialized devices focused on entertainment instead of general purpose ones.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    Microsoft became a trillion dollar company with another approach, yes, you're right. Walmart became a trillion dollar company doing completely different things. Nobody is pretending anything. But when somebody says "follow the money" as the explanation to why other brands make crap laptops, I think it is fair to point out that most money goes to the company that makes laptops that aren't crap.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      >Microsoft became a trillion dollar company with another approach, yes, you're right. Walmart became a trillion dollar company doing completely different things. Nobody is pretending anything. your point here more or less argues with your point above and goes back to what I was trying to tell you. "Follow the money" doesn't mean "follow the money of the biggest companies that you only tangentially compete with". It means "understand the business in question and use their motivation for money to figure out their priorities". Take a look at what makes Microsoft money, then what makes HP/Acer/Lenovo/Razer/etc. money, and even what makes Intel/Nvidia/AMD money. Now ask how much "fixing a proper sleep mode" will make any of these entities. That probably gives some clue on why no one has solved this yet. >I think it is fair to point out that most money goes to the company that makes laptops that aren't crap. I think I explained this above, but I should emphasize that we both know the best product doesn't always make the most money.
      - carlosjobim 3y ago
        >I think I explained this above, but I should emphasize that we both know the best product doesn't always make the most money. Look at the thread title, look at what specific products are being discussed in the thread. There is no dispute that for laptop computers, the best product is making the most money. And I'd argue that it is the case for smart phones as well. There is a market that is probably in the size of millions of people who would love to buy a non-Apple laptop that was a bit closer to the Macbook in quality. But other manufacturers don't seem to give a damn, even though Apple has demonstrated that it pays off making quality products and caring for the customer. Everybody would benefit from better competition.

acdha 3y ago

This is a lazy troll - for example, note how conspicuously people making that claim are unable to identify specific equivalent hardware at significantly lower prices or any discussion of the total cost of ownership over the service life of the device. Simply repeating a cliche forum comment doesn’t contribute anything like those details could.

smoldesu 3y ago
> note how conspicuously people making that claim are unable to identify specific equivalent hardware At this rate, if you show someone a laptop that's genuinely better than a Macbook they'll complain that it's missing a notch. Setting a nebulous standard of "equivalent hardware" is a lazy goalpost intended to waste the time of good-faith commentators. It's an ivory throne in the swamp, if it suits you.
- acdha 3y ago
  > At this rate, if you show someone a laptop that's genuinely better than a Macbook they'll complain that it's missing a notch. Okay, let’s test that: try being the first one in the thread to do so and see what responses you get.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    I did: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39592984 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39592984 Nobody seems to have replied. Do you want the honors of telling me there's no glass trackpad?
    - acdha 3y ago
      You didn’t, actually. You listed a vague description which could apply to multiple models and years and it would hardly make sense to compare an old used device to any new one. Now, if we look at Lenovo’s current Ideapad lineup we start to see something interesting: most of them have these crappy low-res displays and once you’re talking similar display quality, you are shockingly looking at similar prices: https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-i7-1255U-Graphics-Thunderbolt4-Fingerprint/dp/B0BYS7PKN1 https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-i7-1255U-Graphics-Thunderbolt4...