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> Apple continues to simplify the laptop naming scheme, we're at a point where it's simply: > Air OR Pro > Small screen OR big screen The weird part of that ar

> Apple continues to simplify the laptop naming scheme, we're at a point where it's simply: > Air OR Pro > Small screen OR big screen The weird part of that argument to me: to arrive to that point you've already made a ton of choices that need to be educated. You decided on the form factor: you don't want a convertible (neither a Surface like tablet + keyboard, nor something like a Yoga). You decided to forgo touch. You decided you don't really want to game. You also evaluated you don't need anything Windows or x86 only. Then sure there's about 10 models. But at that point is it much complicated than say, choose from the DELL XPS line ?

Longhanks 3y ago
In my experience, most people looking for "just a notebook" don't care about any of those things. They want a low maintenance, high performant (for day-to-day tasks, not gaming) portable computer with a great battery that runs Chrome, Office and Spotify, and comes with great customer service - nothing comes close to being able to bring your Mac to the next Apple Store.
- zdragnar 3y ago
  You could just get a Chromebook for that and save yourself a ton of money. It's what my wife did, and she's not wanted anything else for seven years. It isn't close to an apple device in terms of materials or performance, but at a tenth of the cost of a pro it makes a lot of sense.
  - garrickvanburen 3y ago
    Laptops in my household are a mix of Macs and Chromebooks. All are >5yrs old. Love the resilience and useful life of both.
  - eropple 3y ago
    I've had a couple of Chromebooks and enjoyed them, but I never found one with a keyboard that didn't feel terrible to type on. Does one exist today?
    - zdragnar 3y ago
      I'm guessing if you want quality materials, you have to pay for it. I don't know if the pixel line of Chromebooks are still a thing, but even if they are you can just get a higher end laptop with more appropriate levels of local SSD storage and an actual OS for what I remember Google charging for them.
      - lupire 3y ago
        Higher end Chromebooks run Linux well.
      - eropple 3y ago
        That's why my actual laptops are Thinkpads and Macs, sure--but I can hope, right?
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  If I gave these requirements to my parents they'd go to a random computer shop and come back with probably a random 13 or 15 inch DELL. And that's what millions of people get at work as a standard supplied computer. I am not saying the mac isn't good at filling that niche, just that people who really don't care about computers also don't care if it's a mac, and will probably be fine with any recent default configuration machine from a major maker. PS: > bring your Mac to the next Apple Store You need an Apple Store. In my experience people have come to terms with shipping devices and waiting for repairs. Cloud sync helps a lot in that respect, as keeping another computer around has become decently manageable.
  - Klonoar 3y ago
    > If I gave these requirements to my parents they'd go to a random computer shop and come back with probably a random 13 or 15 inch DELL. And if I did that, they'd also come back with that DELL - and then I'd be stuck doing tech support for them for however long the thing lasts. I cannot begin to count the number of times they've gone and bought some junk computer that they got upsold on. This is not an experience unique to me, either. The non-Apple laptop segment is (mostly) a broken experience in comparison.
    - sroussey 3y ago
      > And if I did that, they'd also come back with that DELL - and then I'd be stuck doing tech support for them for however long the thing lasts. I stopped doing tech support for family members using Windows. THAT was the main reason they changed to Mac. And now, hardly do any support for them at all.
      - throwaway118899 3y ago
        The key is to treat Windows users like children and lock it down with an administrator password. You’d be amazed how well Windows holds up over the years if you just prevent them from installing whatever random bullshit they find.
- sva_ 3y ago
  > nothing comes close to being able to bring your Mac to the next Apple Store. Ah really? Ever heard of worldwide on-site next day repair warranty?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- macinjosh 3y ago
  And in my experience most people looking for "just a notebook" don't want to pay the prices Apple demands. Especially when they see prices on the non-Apple laptops.
Spooky23 3y ago
People just shop by price and look. XPS and Yoga target specific segments of the market. The average punter buys whatever crap they have on sale at Target or Best Buy.
coldtea 3y ago
>Then sure there's about 10 models. But at that point is it much complicated than say, choose from the DELL XPS line ? Yes. A thousand times more complicated. I usually get Apple gear for myself, but am always asked to help friends and relatives with PC laptop buying decisions...
mbreese 3y ago
You’re going about your decision tree backwards. People don’t say “I don’t want a touchscreen” or “I don’t want to game”. You don’t make decisions based upon what you don’t want to do… you make them based upon what you do want to do. I was talking with my dad recently, and he wanted a new computer that could handle email, a little Excel, Facebook, and some other light web browsing that didn’t get stuck in an infinite reboot loop for system updates (which somehow his Windows got stuck somehow). There are a bagillion options for Windows laptops that fit those needs. He ended up not being able to make a decision and is still using his same old laptop. Whereas my son wanted a desktop computer that would support playing Valorant at 60fps at 1440. That narrowed things down substantially and ended up building one to his specs. If a Mac fits your requirements, then you have far fewer decisions. And that’s part of the point. For the a long time, Apple has stuck to a restricted set of SKUs. This is by design. It’s not that they couldn’t offer a touchscreen, or a convertible, or a xMac. It’s that they’ve been there… had many form factors and SKUs and it almost killed the company. Even if you say you want a Dell laptop — have you ever tried to browse their site? If you say you want a laptop you’re presented with 68 options (I just did this). 68.
- Dah00n 3y ago
  >If a Mac fits your requirements, then you have far fewer decisions. That's what OP said? Because now you have already decided you don't want to game, etc. >Even if you say you want a Dell laptop — have you ever tried to browse their site? This is the iPhone versus Android discussion all over again. Yes, many will be happy with the iPhone, but they also often didn't know they had the option to buy an Android phone that could do something the iPhone couldn't that they'd like to be able to do (like copy&paste or whatever). Ignorance is bliss for some. Others want the choices, and Apple have nothing for those buyers.
  - paulmd 3y ago
    > do something the iPhone couldn't that they'd like to be able to do (like copy&paste or whatever) it is amazing how much the android crowd loves to shit on apple "brainless sheeple" etc given how little they clearly know about the products themselves. I keep bringing it up over and over and it's never not true, the android crowd is just so utterly uncivil and it's completely normalized and accepted as public discourse. The AMD fanbase has the exact same problem. It's constant "brainless sheep" and "the ONLY reason anyone buys [not my brand] is [infantilizing and insulting remark goes here]". If anyone on the other side did anything remotely like that they'd be slapped with a mod comment etc. But if you point it out, that people are misbehaving and acting out, you're the bad guy, because acknowledging the constant microaggressions is the greatest crime of all.
tcmart14 3y ago
Am I so glad though that Apple didn't buy into the touch for the laptops. Now this comes with a caveat, if you have some like the Yoga that the hinge can go all the way around, touch isn't bad. But god, in the early 2010s when everyone was throwing touch on their laptop screens, I hated that so much. Laptop hinge only goes 120 degrees or something like that, lets throw touch screen on it! horrible idea. Although I heard many complaints about the Yoga. Never owned one, but if I had a laptop with a touch screen, that seems like the route to go. The Surface too, but I've also heard those stop feeling snappy pretty quick and tons of thermal issues.
- ode 3y ago
  In LTT's recent video reviewing the Vision Pro he predicts Apple is going to go to touchscreens on their laptops because users will be used to it coming from the headset. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuHOf_kZK6Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuHOf_kZK6Q

Longhanks 3y ago

In my experience, most people looking for "just a notebook" don't care about any of those things. They want a low maintenance, high performant (for day-to-day tasks, not gaming) portable computer with a great battery that runs Chrome, Office and Spotify, and comes with great customer service - nothing comes close to being able to bring your Mac to the next Apple Store.

zdragnar 3y ago
You could just get a Chromebook for that and save yourself a ton of money. It's what my wife did, and she's not wanted anything else for seven years. It isn't close to an apple device in terms of materials or performance, but at a tenth of the cost of a pro it makes a lot of sense.
- garrickvanburen 3y ago
  Laptops in my household are a mix of Macs and Chromebooks. All are >5yrs old. Love the resilience and useful life of both.
- eropple 3y ago
  I've had a couple of Chromebooks and enjoyed them, but I never found one with a keyboard that didn't feel terrible to type on. Does one exist today?
  - zdragnar 3y ago
    I'm guessing if you want quality materials, you have to pay for it. I don't know if the pixel line of Chromebooks are still a thing, but even if they are you can just get a higher end laptop with more appropriate levels of local SSD storage and an actual OS for what I remember Google charging for them.
    - lupire 3y ago
      Higher end Chromebooks run Linux well.
    - eropple 3y ago
      That's why my actual laptops are Thinkpads and Macs, sure--but I can hope, right?
makeitdouble 3y ago
If I gave these requirements to my parents they'd go to a random computer shop and come back with probably a random 13 or 15 inch DELL. And that's what millions of people get at work as a standard supplied computer. I am not saying the mac isn't good at filling that niche, just that people who really don't care about computers also don't care if it's a mac, and will probably be fine with any recent default configuration machine from a major maker. PS: > bring your Mac to the next Apple Store You need an Apple Store. In my experience people have come to terms with shipping devices and waiting for repairs. Cloud sync helps a lot in that respect, as keeping another computer around has become decently manageable.
- Klonoar 3y ago
  > If I gave these requirements to my parents they'd go to a random computer shop and come back with probably a random 13 or 15 inch DELL. And if I did that, they'd also come back with that DELL - and then I'd be stuck doing tech support for them for however long the thing lasts. I cannot begin to count the number of times they've gone and bought some junk computer that they got upsold on. This is not an experience unique to me, either. The non-Apple laptop segment is (mostly) a broken experience in comparison.
  - sroussey 3y ago
    > And if I did that, they'd also come back with that DELL - and then I'd be stuck doing tech support for them for however long the thing lasts. I stopped doing tech support for family members using Windows. THAT was the main reason they changed to Mac. And now, hardly do any support for them at all.
    - throwaway118899 3y ago
      The key is to treat Windows users like children and lock it down with an administrator password. You’d be amazed how well Windows holds up over the years if you just prevent them from installing whatever random bullshit they find.
sva_ 3y ago
> nothing comes close to being able to bring your Mac to the next Apple Store. Ah really? Ever heard of worldwide on-site next day repair warranty?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
macinjosh 3y ago
And in my experience most people looking for "just a notebook" don't want to pay the prices Apple demands. Especially when they see prices on the non-Apple laptops.

Spooky23 3y ago

People just shop by price and look. XPS and Yoga target specific segments of the market. The average punter buys whatever crap they have on sale at Target or Best Buy.

coldtea 3y ago

>Then sure there's about 10 models. But at that point is it much complicated than say, choose from the DELL XPS line ? Yes. A thousand times more complicated. I usually get Apple gear for myself, but am always asked to help friends and relatives with PC laptop buying decisions...

mbreese 3y ago

You’re going about your decision tree backwards. People don’t say “I don’t want a touchscreen” or “I don’t want to game”. You don’t make decisions based upon what you don’t want to do… you make them based upon what you do want to do. I was talking with my dad recently, and he wanted a new computer that could handle email, a little Excel, Facebook, and some other light web browsing that didn’t get stuck in an infinite reboot loop for system updates (which somehow his Windows got stuck somehow). There are a bagillion options for Windows laptops that fit those needs. He ended up not being able to make a decision and is still using his same old laptop. Whereas my son wanted a desktop computer that would support playing Valorant at 60fps at 1440. That narrowed things down substantially and ended up building one to his specs. If a Mac fits your requirements, then you have far fewer decisions. And that’s part of the point. For the a long time, Apple has stuck to a restricted set of SKUs. This is by design. It’s not that they couldn’t offer a touchscreen, or a convertible, or a xMac. It’s that they’ve been there… had many form factors and SKUs and it almost killed the company. Even if you say you want a Dell laptop — have you ever tried to browse their site? If you say you want a laptop you’re presented with 68 options (I just did this). 68.

Dah00n 3y ago
>If a Mac fits your requirements, then you have far fewer decisions. That's what OP said? Because now you have already decided you don't want to game, etc. >Even if you say you want a Dell laptop — have you ever tried to browse their site? This is the iPhone versus Android discussion all over again. Yes, many will be happy with the iPhone, but they also often didn't know they had the option to buy an Android phone that could do something the iPhone couldn't that they'd like to be able to do (like copy&paste or whatever). Ignorance is bliss for some. Others want the choices, and Apple have nothing for those buyers.
- paulmd 3y ago
  > do something the iPhone couldn't that they'd like to be able to do (like copy&paste or whatever) it is amazing how much the android crowd loves to shit on apple "brainless sheeple" etc given how little they clearly know about the products themselves. I keep bringing it up over and over and it's never not true, the android crowd is just so utterly uncivil and it's completely normalized and accepted as public discourse. The AMD fanbase has the exact same problem. It's constant "brainless sheep" and "the ONLY reason anyone buys [not my brand] is [infantilizing and insulting remark goes here]". If anyone on the other side did anything remotely like that they'd be slapped with a mod comment etc. But if you point it out, that people are misbehaving and acting out, you're the bad guy, because acknowledging the constant microaggressions is the greatest crime of all.

tcmart14 3y ago

Am I so glad though that Apple didn't buy into the touch for the laptops. Now this comes with a caveat, if you have some like the Yoga that the hinge can go all the way around, touch isn't bad. But god, in the early 2010s when everyone was throwing touch on their laptop screens, I hated that so much. Laptop hinge only goes 120 degrees or something like that, lets throw touch screen on it! horrible idea. Although I heard many complaints about the Yoga. Never owned one, but if I had a laptop with a touch screen, that seems like the route to go. The Surface too, but I've also heard those stop feeling snappy pretty quick and tons of thermal issues.

ode 3y ago
In LTT's recent video reviewing the Vision Pro he predicts Apple is going to go to touchscreens on their laptops because users will be used to it coming from the headset. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuHOf_kZK6Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuHOf_kZK6Q