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Non-zero chance Walmart's architects didn't even know .NET runs (and is easier to deploy to than Java) on Linux for good 5+ years already... Edit: Okay, they k

Non-zero chance Walmart's architects didn't even know .NET runs (and is easier to deploy to than Java) on Linux for good 5+ years already... Edit: Okay, they know, I'm sorry :) Does not make it less sad and perhaps very unfortunate decision. Also, Hibernate sucks.

mlrtime 3y ago
I'm sure they know .NET runs on Linux. Changing the underlining OS for 1000's of hosts is not a trivial task.
bravetraveler 3y ago
I'm sure they've been forced to endure mono as part of 'wonderful' security software There's two kinds of Mono on Linux from what I understand... The older one is packaged with a particular piece of security software, and the packages have more problems than I can count edit: I got got! TIL that proper .NET on Linux exists. I'm more mad at Mono/this software now
- neonsunset 3y ago
  What makes you think so? Mono has never been used for back-end workloads aside from projects led by enthusiasts.
  - bravetraveler 3y ago
    I edited my post a bit to include a vague hint; it's not "backend workloads", assuming part of an application stack/service It's security software - to be less vague, it's software made by Crowdstrike
    - neonsunset 3y ago
      Okay, now this evokes some bad (because of Crowdstrike) memories... But using Mono in any recent years where the blessed way to do so is just using .NET is a big disservice to what the thing can do, and it requires you to really go out of your way to make a container that uses Mono over vanilla (Core)CLR. Also, not liking what is now MIT FOSS stack does not make sense. It is the unified set of repositories going forward, with Mono currently serving exotic targets like WASM and being a part of dotnet/runtime. Completely not surprising for it is the most standard myopic response you usually hear from Linux communities (which, checks notes, are supposed to advocate for OSS?) the moment .NET is mentioned.
      - bravetraveler 3y ago
        I appreciate you making me current, being more on the architecture side than software... I get very little exposure to these happenings. I mostly glue existing stuff together, not make new stuff. My frustration with .NET is dated, really due to Mono. > which, checks notes, are supposed to advocate for OSS? I'm not sure how much to unpack here; my complaints are more with what I was given than anything philosophical
- outworlder 3y ago
  You don't have to use Mono. People are talking about actually using .NET on Linux.
  - bravetraveler 3y ago
    Well that makes me even more upset at this software
spankalee 3y ago
I've worked with former Walmart technical staff and they're quite good, and there is indeed a zero-percent change that their team doesn't know this.
jxf 3y ago
The Walmart folks are pretty bright in general. I did some consulting for them a while back so I saw this first-hand. Organizations aren't monoliths, of course, but my experience was that they definitely did know what they were doing.
tombert 3y ago
I was on the Walmart teams that did F#. Since at least 2018 there was at least some services running on .NET Core on Linux, and by 2021 everything was on Linux. Most of us dev'd on MacOS using JetBrains Rider, running .NET Core. My title wasn't "architect", but it was "Staff Software Engineer" by the end. Does that qualify?
phillipcarter 3y ago
I was on a call with one of the more senior Walmart (non-Jet) architects about Java and .NET back when I worked on the .NET team. He seemed dismissive of the idea that F# (and .NET) ran perfectly well on Linux, and didn't demonstrate even the slightest curiosity about that. We committed strong support for their workloads, talked about our staffing for that support, talked about how they'd flown me out to New Jersey twice for some in-person feedback and learning sessions, etc. Didn't seem to matter to this person. Where my heart lies aside, I also think it's rather dumb. My understanding of the system talked about in this job post is that it's quite mature and works very well, and my default stance for any rewrite is "don't be dumb, don't do it", and that would apply here.

mlrtime 3y ago

I'm sure they know .NET runs on Linux. Changing the underlining OS for 1000's of hosts is not a trivial task.

bravetraveler 3y ago

I'm sure they've been forced to endure mono as part of 'wonderful' security software There's two kinds of Mono on Linux from what I understand... The older one is packaged with a particular piece of security software, and the packages have more problems than I can count edit: I got got! TIL that proper .NET on Linux exists. I'm more mad at Mono/this software now

neonsunset 3y ago
What makes you think so? Mono has never been used for back-end workloads aside from projects led by enthusiasts.
- bravetraveler 3y ago
  I edited my post a bit to include a vague hint; it's not "backend workloads", assuming part of an application stack/service It's security software - to be less vague, it's software made by Crowdstrike
  - neonsunset 3y ago
    Okay, now this evokes some bad (because of Crowdstrike) memories... But using Mono in any recent years where the blessed way to do so is just using .NET is a big disservice to what the thing can do, and it requires you to really go out of your way to make a container that uses Mono over vanilla (Core)CLR. Also, not liking what is now MIT FOSS stack does not make sense. It is the unified set of repositories going forward, with Mono currently serving exotic targets like WASM and being a part of dotnet/runtime. Completely not surprising for it is the most standard myopic response you usually hear from Linux communities (which, checks notes, are supposed to advocate for OSS?) the moment .NET is mentioned.
    - bravetraveler 3y ago
      I appreciate you making me current, being more on the architecture side than software... I get very little exposure to these happenings. I mostly glue existing stuff together, not make new stuff. My frustration with .NET is dated, really due to Mono. > which, checks notes, are supposed to advocate for OSS? I'm not sure how much to unpack here; my complaints are more with what I was given than anything philosophical
outworlder 3y ago
You don't have to use Mono. People are talking about actually using .NET on Linux.
- bravetraveler 3y ago
  Well that makes me even more upset at this software

spankalee 3y ago

I've worked with former Walmart technical staff and they're quite good, and there is indeed a zero-percent change that their team doesn't know this.

jxf 3y ago

The Walmart folks are pretty bright in general. I did some consulting for them a while back so I saw this first-hand. Organizations aren't monoliths, of course, but my experience was that they definitely did know what they were doing.

tombert 3y ago

I was on the Walmart teams that did F#. Since at least 2018 there was at least some services running on .NET Core on Linux, and by 2021 everything was on Linux. Most of us dev'd on MacOS using JetBrains Rider, running .NET Core. My title wasn't "architect", but it was "Staff Software Engineer" by the end. Does that qualify?

phillipcarter 3y ago

I was on a call with one of the more senior Walmart (non-Jet) architects about Java and .NET back when I worked on the .NET team. He seemed dismissive of the idea that F# (and .NET) ran perfectly well on Linux, and didn't demonstrate even the slightest curiosity about that. We committed strong support for their workloads, talked about our staffing for that support, talked about how they'd flown me out to New Jersey twice for some in-person feedback and learning sessions, etc. Didn't seem to matter to this person. Where my heart lies aside, I also think it's rather dumb. My understanding of the system talked about in this job post is that it's quite mature and works very well, and my default stance for any rewrite is "don't be dumb, don't do it", and that would apply here.