3 ms·

> Also my personal opinion is that 90% of consumer frustration comes from the extremely subpar implementation of Hybrid Sleep between Windows, Intel/AMD, and OE

> Also my personal opinion is that 90% of consumer frustration comes from the extremely subpar implementation of Hybrid Sleep between Windows, Intel/AMD, and OEMs. Consumers expect to be able to close their laptop and for it to preserve battery instead of becoming hot or dying the bag. That really needs a solution. Mind boggling that so many smart people at Microsoft/AMD/Intel/HP/Dell have not been able to figure this out yet.

acdha 3y ago
Here’s a better way to think about it: whose boss thinks that _they_ need to fix something as opposed to all of those other people? If your MacBook had a problem everyone involved knows that Tim Cook is going to pull their bosses into his office and ask why he’s reading a news story about unhappy users. In the PC or Android world you have coordinate different parties who each have a financial stake in saying that their part is working but the other guys screwed up. This is an area where I think part of the solution should be regulatory: require manufacturers to take back defective devices within a much longer period of time after the initial sale, for example, or requiring them to cash out advertised features which don’t work reliably.
NotSammyHagar 3y ago
It's the heterogenous combination of multiple and constantly changing hardware requiring tweaks or adjustments to the sleep modes. It's not satisfactory to write that down but I think that's what's happening.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
>Mind boggling that so many smart people at Microsoft/AMD/Intel/HP/Dell have not been able to figure this out yet. Follow the money. How much demand is there for it, Who's incentivized to fix it, how much does it cost to R&D, and will that feature increase profit margins? The sad workaround is simply SSD's having faster boot times and setting a computer to hibernate instead of sleep when closed (and not on battery). It gets "close enough" for many.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  >The sad workaround is simply SSD's having faster boot times and setting a computer to hibernate instead of sleep when closed (and not on battery). It gets "close enough" for many. That is not a workaround since, as far as I know, only MacBooks have a sufficiently good reputation that when you close the lid, it won’t still be on in your bag. I assume if this hibernate option was viable, then people would be slamming their Windows laptop shut and stuffing it in their bag at a moment’s notice.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >I assume if this hibernate option was viable, then people would be slamming their Windows laptop shut and stuffing it in their bag at a moment’s notice. it's viable for me. sleep has never been consistent on any of the 10 devices I had, no matter the cost or build of the laptop. But that's the default settings when you receive a new Windows device and changing this means going deep into the settings (Control Panel\Hardware and Sound\Power Options\System Settings in case you're curious). So most people won't ever have that configured. It's probably at best what pops up if you google "how to fix windows sleep issue" or "my laptop not turning off when lid closed" kinds of stuff. That's one mantra Apple usually lives up to: "it just works". i.e. most of their defauls align with what a consumer expects, and is consistent with behavior. Windows/Linux can do almost everything a mac does, but you may have to spend days figuring out the settings and how they interact with your specific machine.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  > Follow the money. If you follow the money, you can see it flowing in to Apple's bank account from consumers.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    sure, trillion dollar company invested hundreds of billions over a decade to secure their own supply chain from parts to distribution. But I don't think every other OEM would have the same success even if it ended up being higher quality.

acdha 3y ago

Here’s a better way to think about it: whose boss thinks that _they_ need to fix something as opposed to all of those other people? If your MacBook had a problem everyone involved knows that Tim Cook is going to pull their bosses into his office and ask why he’s reading a news story about unhappy users. In the PC or Android world you have coordinate different parties who each have a financial stake in saying that their part is working but the other guys screwed up. This is an area where I think part of the solution should be regulatory: require manufacturers to take back defective devices within a much longer period of time after the initial sale, for example, or requiring them to cash out advertised features which don’t work reliably.

NotSammyHagar 3y ago

It's the heterogenous combination of multiple and constantly changing hardware requiring tweaks or adjustments to the sleep modes. It's not satisfactory to write that down but I think that's what's happening.

johnnyanmac 3y ago

>Mind boggling that so many smart people at Microsoft/AMD/Intel/HP/Dell have not been able to figure this out yet. Follow the money. How much demand is there for it, Who's incentivized to fix it, how much does it cost to R&D, and will that feature increase profit margins? The sad workaround is simply SSD's having faster boot times and setting a computer to hibernate instead of sleep when closed (and not on battery). It gets "close enough" for many.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
>The sad workaround is simply SSD's having faster boot times and setting a computer to hibernate instead of sleep when closed (and not on battery). It gets "close enough" for many. That is not a workaround since, as far as I know, only MacBooks have a sufficiently good reputation that when you close the lid, it won’t still be on in your bag. I assume if this hibernate option was viable, then people would be slamming their Windows laptop shut and stuffing it in their bag at a moment’s notice.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >I assume if this hibernate option was viable, then people would be slamming their Windows laptop shut and stuffing it in their bag at a moment’s notice. it's viable for me. sleep has never been consistent on any of the 10 devices I had, no matter the cost or build of the laptop. But that's the default settings when you receive a new Windows device and changing this means going deep into the settings (Control Panel\Hardware and Sound\Power Options\System Settings in case you're curious). So most people won't ever have that configured. It's probably at best what pops up if you google "how to fix windows sleep issue" or "my laptop not turning off when lid closed" kinds of stuff. That's one mantra Apple usually lives up to: "it just works". i.e. most of their defauls align with what a consumer expects, and is consistent with behavior. Windows/Linux can do almost everything a mac does, but you may have to spend days figuring out the settings and how they interact with your specific machine.
carlosjobim 3y ago
> Follow the money. If you follow the money, you can see it flowing in to Apple's bank account from consumers.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  sure, trillion dollar company invested hundreds of billions over a decade to secure their own supply chain from parts to distribution. But I don't think every other OEM would have the same success even if it ended up being higher quality.