4 ms·

I just want a Windows Surface-like device that runs iPadOS when detached from its keyboard (as the current iPad is now with its keyboard case) and when attached

I just want a Windows Surface-like device that runs iPadOS when detached from its keyboard (as the current iPad is now with its keyboard case) and when attached, it runs macOS. Is that so difficult? But of course, why sell you only one device when Apple can sell two?

s3r3nity 3y ago
You could get an iPad Pro (or even a regular iPad) and remote into a cloud Mac. If people wanted what you described, then Surfaces would be skyrocketing. However it looks like according to MSFT that Surface sales are sinking, which might explain why the previous head has left Microsoft: https://www.zdnet.com/article/can-microsoft-recover-from-the-collapse-of-its-surface-business/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/can-microsoft-recover-from-the...
- idontpost 3y ago
  I switched from a Surface Book to a Macbook Pro + Ipad Pro combo. I preferred the Surface Book from a device ergonomics perspective -- but I finally got sick of trying to do dev work on Windows. So I paid 2x as much for the same functionality instead. And that's why Apple won't make that form factor.
  - satvikpendem 3y ago
    Exactly. I also used to have a Surface (both the regular one and a Book 3) but the smaller screen of the former and the higher cost and weight, and lower performance, of the latter made me buy a MacBook. The form factor appeal is there for the Surface, it's just death by a thousand cuts in terms of their other problems. I never had an issue with Windows development however, as I generally used WSL 2.
    - seec 3y ago
      Yes, that's basically it. Microsoft had the right idea they were just too early on it and cannot put as much money into it as Apple does. And they don't have a competitive enough chip to choose from their partners. If either Intel or AMD gets there, Apple will get some much-needed competition.
- throwitaway1123 3y ago
  > If people wanted what you described, then Surfaces would be skyrocketing. But isn't Apple in somewhat of a unique position given that they're the only company that develops a popular tablet OS and a popular desktop OS? Microsoft has Windows Subsystem for Android, but it looks like it only runs apps from the Amazon Appstore [1]. If there was an Apple device similar to the discontinued Surface Book that ran iPadOS and MacOS, I would be intrigued. Using an iPad as a display for a Mac is cool, but it would be nice to run MacOS locally. [1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/android/wsa/ https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/android/wsa/
  - throwitaway1123 3y ago
    Coincidentally, Microsoft ended support for WSA the day after I wrote this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39606464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39606464 Unlike Windows Subsystem for Linux which is thriving, Google's stranglehold on Android via its Play Store renders any attempt to integrate Windows and Android non-viable.
tiltowait 3y ago
Apple's shown some willingness in the past to cannibalize their own sales (the iPod is a prime example), so my take is less pessimistic than yours. Though I also really want such a device (at least in theory), I think it's likely there are a lot of technical hurdles and trade-offs Apple finds unacceptable.
vundercind 3y ago
You'll know they're maybe thinking about it when iPadOS gets multiple accounts. Until then, it's hard to define the right thing for such a device to do when it's logged in to a second account on macOS and you un-dock it. You'd also take a pretty big hit in disk use for such a dual-OS device, until they do a ton more work to unify a lot of their software (I'm thinking not just of the OS, but their office suite and other programs).
themagician 3y ago
They will merge, eventually. iOS/iPadOS is the future. Ever iteration macOS becomes more iOS like. The compute model is changing. I am now old and enjoy doing computers the "old way." I watch younger people wizzing through apps on an iPad and they are able to do 85% of what I can do on a desktop—and if I'm being honest they can often arrive at the same output faster. There are tons of exceptions, of course. No terminal, limited filesystem access, no Xcode, applications like Photoshop and Final Cut run with a limited feature set, etc.. The list is actually quite long. But every year the list gets shorter. Somewhere in a room at the Apple spaceship is a chart that has all three OSes converging under a single OS, probably aptly called OS. I'm sure they keep pushing the date off into the future, but it will happen. The numbers are really getting up there too—macOS 14, iOS 17, etc.. If I had to guess, there will be no iOS 20. We will get AppleOS v1.0 instead.
sngz 3y ago
So... Samsung dex

s3r3nity 3y ago

You could get an iPad Pro (or even a regular iPad) and remote into a cloud Mac. If people wanted what you described, then Surfaces would be skyrocketing. However it looks like according to MSFT that Surface sales are sinking, which might explain why the previous head has left Microsoft: https://www.zdnet.com/article/can-microsoft-recover-from-the-collapse-of-its-surface-business/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/can-microsoft-recover-from-the...

idontpost 3y ago
I switched from a Surface Book to a Macbook Pro + Ipad Pro combo. I preferred the Surface Book from a device ergonomics perspective -- but I finally got sick of trying to do dev work on Windows. So I paid 2x as much for the same functionality instead. And that's why Apple won't make that form factor.
- satvikpendem 3y ago
  Exactly. I also used to have a Surface (both the regular one and a Book 3) but the smaller screen of the former and the higher cost and weight, and lower performance, of the latter made me buy a MacBook. The form factor appeal is there for the Surface, it's just death by a thousand cuts in terms of their other problems. I never had an issue with Windows development however, as I generally used WSL 2.
  - seec 3y ago
    Yes, that's basically it. Microsoft had the right idea they were just too early on it and cannot put as much money into it as Apple does. And they don't have a competitive enough chip to choose from their partners. If either Intel or AMD gets there, Apple will get some much-needed competition.
throwitaway1123 3y ago
> If people wanted what you described, then Surfaces would be skyrocketing. But isn't Apple in somewhat of a unique position given that they're the only company that develops a popular tablet OS and a popular desktop OS? Microsoft has Windows Subsystem for Android, but it looks like it only runs apps from the Amazon Appstore [1]. If there was an Apple device similar to the discontinued Surface Book that ran iPadOS and MacOS, I would be intrigued. Using an iPad as a display for a Mac is cool, but it would be nice to run MacOS locally. [1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/android/wsa/ https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/android/wsa/
- throwitaway1123 3y ago
  Coincidentally, Microsoft ended support for WSA the day after I wrote this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39606464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39606464 Unlike Windows Subsystem for Linux which is thriving, Google's stranglehold on Android via its Play Store renders any attempt to integrate Windows and Android non-viable.

tiltowait 3y ago

Apple's shown some willingness in the past to cannibalize their own sales (the iPod is a prime example), so my take is less pessimistic than yours. Though I also really want such a device (at least in theory), I think it's likely there are a lot of technical hurdles and trade-offs Apple finds unacceptable.

vundercind 3y ago

You'll know they're maybe thinking about it when iPadOS gets multiple accounts. Until then, it's hard to define the right thing for such a device to do when it's logged in to a second account on macOS and you un-dock it. You'd also take a pretty big hit in disk use for such a dual-OS device, until they do a ton more work to unify a lot of their software (I'm thinking not just of the OS, but their office suite and other programs).

themagician 3y ago

They will merge, eventually. iOS/iPadOS is the future. Ever iteration macOS becomes more iOS like. The compute model is changing. I am now old and enjoy doing computers the "old way." I watch younger people wizzing through apps on an iPad and they are able to do 85% of what I can do on a desktop—and if I'm being honest they can often arrive at the same output faster. There are tons of exceptions, of course. No terminal, limited filesystem access, no Xcode, applications like Photoshop and Final Cut run with a limited feature set, etc.. The list is actually quite long. But every year the list gets shorter. Somewhere in a room at the Apple spaceship is a chart that has all three OSes converging under a single OS, probably aptly called OS. I'm sure they keep pushing the date off into the future, but it will happen. The numbers are really getting up there too—macOS 14, iOS 17, etc.. If I had to guess, there will be no iOS 20. We will get AppleOS v1.0 instead.

sngz 3y ago

So... Samsung dex