6 ms·

I fear that if true this might be a step backwards for users outside of the US, as Google has spent a massive amount of effort collecting Street View data from

by _djo_ 14y ago

I fear that if true this might be a step backwards for users outside of the US, as Google has spent a massive amount of effort collecting Street View data from all over the world. I highly doubt that Apple or the mapping companies it has acquired have quite the same coverage.

ChuckMcM 14y ago
You may not realize it but you make one and possibly two assumptions with this statement, first that Apple isn't currently collecting equivalent street view data (Microsoft has done the same with their mapping product), and possibly two that the collection of the data for Apple would take as much time as it did for Google. Sure there is the physical drive around stuff. But if you look at the C3 stuff (the company Apple bought that turns satellite images into 3D views) you can see where they might go with it. Also they do have a ton of cash and it would be seriously less than half a billion dollars to take a picture of the world. You might even get Toyota to make the 'steet view' edition version of the Prius in quantity. The key thought for me here is that if this report is true, then Apple has decided mapping is strategic and taken it in house. And like Google (who did this in part so they could offer turn by turn directions [1]) they could exploit data they own for a wide variety of purposes. [1] The original sources of Google's map information did not include a license to use it for turn by turn as that was exclusively given to another company by the vendor. Google had to acquire their own data without those restrictions in order to do navigation.
- jeffpersonified 14y ago
  Beyond pushing Google further out of their device and perhaps creating a more accurate mapping system, what do you think are the "strategic" points for bringing cartography in house? It's not like Apple would be interested in unmanned vehicle nav, or something... right? I myself can't think of any strategic reasons beyond competition with Google.
  - ChuckMcM 14y ago
    The strategic reason is mobile. It isn't well known but all of these databases of aerial imagery, maps, street directions, speed limits, addresses are all sometimes licensable by third parties, sometimes not, and sometimes at extortionate rates. How much of your mobile experience hinges on your use of location data? From turn by turn directions, general maps, businesses nearby, mass transit schedules, to friend locations and check-ins. Bottom line, Geographic information systems (GIS) data is a must-have feature for a smartphone. Google has started raising the price on access to their data, this started a while ago and its been in fits and starts, but Apple can't just 'dump' all map info. Microsoft, same deal $$ for map datasets. So Apple is in the position of its two largest competitors having a way to suck arbitrary amounts of money out of them because they are suppliers of the 'must' have data on a smartphone. New independent companies that can create GIS datasets can't compete with 'free' from Google and Microsoft for users, and even if they succeeded in creating a decent database and Apple used it, they would be subject to being purchased by Google or Microsoft. Finally there are patents (of course) around the use of map data and constructing maps etc from imagery, which a small company could not defend against but Apple can. Therefore Apple has to own a GIS database that is at least as good as Google's version so that it can continue to provide a critical feature on their phone cost effectively.
    - vinayan3 14y ago
      It is more of a defensive move than an offensive one it sounds like.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
DeepDuh 14y ago
As an iOS user from Europe I seriously hope they will do the transition gradually - e.g. first migrate only the US users, then country after country like they do with new iTunes content for example.
bad_user 14y ago
The breadth and depth of Street View can be easily underestimated. They even have data for my town. But more importantly, Street View is not as useful as having good and up to date maps. GMaps added the maps for my town much later, but now the maps have good coverage and are up to date. No other service is as good as GMaps for Europe, although Yahoo Maps was better for Europe a while back. Another thing is turn by turn navigation. Google does have turn by turn navigation for my country, which is freaking awesome. Not only that but for my town they announced they are working on adding info on public transport routes. And btw, when I'm saying "my town", I mean Bucharest, Romania, Eastern Europe. And I don't know how people cope with the above in other countries, but in Bucharest the data for turn by turn navigation and for the public transport routes has to be refreshed very often, so I'm sure it's a PITA doing this for so many countries.
- _djo_ 14y ago
  Exactly. Google mapped the major urban centres of South Africa, my country, before the 2010 Football World Cup, but since then they've been regularly refreshing the data and adding map and Street View data for even small towns in out of the way places. The coverage they have is phenomenal, especially considering the fact that S. Africa is hardly a major country.
- nickpp 14y ago
  Google does NOT provide the maps data in Romania. Those maps are created by the public, unpaid volunteers, under onerous Terms and Conditions. They should direct their efforts to Open Maps instead...
  - bad_user 14y ago
    I like GMaps because it gets me from point A to B, where B is usually vaguely defined. So it solves an important problem for me, which is why I like it, in spite of shortcomings such as being a closed proprietary product. I also do not think that the maps data in GMaps is created by "public, unpaid volunteers". This statement badly needs a reference. I once tried submitting the details of a business in GMaps and the process was so awful that I gave up. But while I do agree that volunteers would better spend their time with OpenStreetMap or similar, it is really none of your business how people choose to spend their time.
rkudeshi 14y ago
If Apple does switch to their own maps, I'm sure Google will come out with their own independent Google Maps app in the App Store, like they have for Google+ and other products. If nothing else, their database of businesses is hugely valuable and useful in its own app (it's what I use the Maps app for most and I don't think Apple will be able to fully replace it, at least not with the first iteration).
- talmand 14y ago
  But doesn't Apple tend to reject apps that duplicate OS features? Or has that changed?
- tonfa 14y ago
  > If Apple does switch to their own maps, I'm sure Google will come out with their own independent Google Maps app in the App Store, like they have for Google+ and other products. I thought Apple does not allow apps competing with the "core" apps.
  - rkudeshi 14y ago
    That rule was dropped a long time ago. AFAIK, the only remaining restriction is using Safari's rendering engine for browser apps. Examples: * Opera vs Safari.app * Sparrow vs Mail.app * Vimeo vs YouTube app * Agenda vs Calendar.app * Kik vs Messages.app * Simplenote vs Notes.app (I believe it came out that that "rule" was only used as an excuse for Apple to delay the Google Voice app. After they finally agreed to let Google Voice on the App Store a year later, I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain about it.)
    - pmjordan 14y ago
      It's actually not the rendering engine but interpretation of code downloaded from the netwOrk (i.e. JavaScript) which must use Apple's interpreter. That interpreter happens to be tied into their browser, so using it for other things is impractical.
    - bookwormAT 14y ago
SkyMarshal 14y ago
Is street view anything more than a fringe benefit? Google Maps got popular long before they had it. As long as you've got detailed street maps, ideally with actual stores and whatnot at their addresses, that should be enough to roll out.
- abruzzi 14y ago
  A map application by itself is certainly useful, but streetview provides certain benefits that a map alone doesn't provide. For my uses it is critical. Every year I take a 7 day vacation with my father on our motorcycles. Streetview allows me to gauge to scenic quality of the road, if the satellite quality is bad, it allows me to see if the road it paved. It allows me to find out if Folsom, Torreon, or Lukachukai and other tiny towns we pass through have a gas station. I don't know much about the 3D stuff apple is working on, but I have my doubts that it will be able to do the above in remote places. I'm sure it will still work well as a map, but streetview provides real benefits that cant really be gotten without driving the road.
- smackfu 14y ago
  Street view or ISO (bird's eye) view are both indispensable to me, because they show store fronts instead of roofs. When I'm driving around, I can't see the roofs, so that does me no good.
- antninja 14y ago
  When I go to a job interview, I like to check what the street looks like and where is the entry of the building. It relieves some anxiety (although it didn't prevent me from getting completely lost once). Street view is one of the most useful features of online maps.
- _djo_ 14y ago
  I've found it very useful on more than one occasion, but that's not why it's so important. Rather it's that as a result of their Street View mapping Google has developed an extremely accurate map database of even obscure corners of the world which in turn has allowed them to offer turn-by-turn navigation for those areas.

by _djo_ 14y ago

ChuckMcM 14y ago

You may not realize it but you make one and possibly two assumptions with this statement, first that Apple isn't currently collecting equivalent street view data (Microsoft has done the same with their mapping product), and possibly two that the collection of the data for Apple would take as much time as it did for Google. Sure there is the physical drive around stuff. But if you look at the C3 stuff (the company Apple bought that turns satellite images into 3D views) you can see where they might go with it. Also they do have a ton of cash and it would be seriously less than half a billion dollars to take a picture of the world. You might even get Toyota to make the 'steet view' edition version of the Prius in quantity. The key thought for me here is that if this report is true, then Apple has decided mapping is strategic and taken it in house. And like Google (who did this in part so they could offer turn by turn directions [1]) they could exploit data they own for a wide variety of purposes. [1] The original sources of Google's map information did not include a license to use it for turn by turn as that was exclusively given to another company by the vendor. Google had to acquire their own data without those restrictions in order to do navigation.

jeffpersonified 14y ago
Beyond pushing Google further out of their device and perhaps creating a more accurate mapping system, what do you think are the "strategic" points for bringing cartography in house? It's not like Apple would be interested in unmanned vehicle nav, or something... right? I myself can't think of any strategic reasons beyond competition with Google.
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  The strategic reason is mobile. It isn't well known but all of these databases of aerial imagery, maps, street directions, speed limits, addresses are all sometimes licensable by third parties, sometimes not, and sometimes at extortionate rates. How much of your mobile experience hinges on your use of location data? From turn by turn directions, general maps, businesses nearby, mass transit schedules, to friend locations and check-ins. Bottom line, Geographic information systems (GIS) data is a must-have feature for a smartphone. Google has started raising the price on access to their data, this started a while ago and its been in fits and starts, but Apple can't just 'dump' all map info. Microsoft, same deal $$ for map datasets. So Apple is in the position of its two largest competitors having a way to suck arbitrary amounts of money out of them because they are suppliers of the 'must' have data on a smartphone. New independent companies that can create GIS datasets can't compete with 'free' from Google and Microsoft for users, and even if they succeeded in creating a decent database and Apple used it, they would be subject to being purchased by Google or Microsoft. Finally there are patents (of course) around the use of map data and constructing maps etc from imagery, which a small company could not defend against but Apple can. Therefore Apple has to own a GIS database that is at least as good as Google's version so that it can continue to provide a critical feature on their phone cost effectively.
  - vinayan3 14y ago
    It is more of a defensive move than an offensive one it sounds like.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]

DeepDuh 14y ago

As an iOS user from Europe I seriously hope they will do the transition gradually - e.g. first migrate only the US users, then country after country like they do with new iTunes content for example.

bad_user 14y ago

The breadth and depth of Street View can be easily underestimated. They even have data for my town. But more importantly, Street View is not as useful as having good and up to date maps. GMaps added the maps for my town much later, but now the maps have good coverage and are up to date. No other service is as good as GMaps for Europe, although Yahoo Maps was better for Europe a while back. Another thing is turn by turn navigation. Google does have turn by turn navigation for my country, which is freaking awesome. Not only that but for my town they announced they are working on adding info on public transport routes. And btw, when I'm saying "my town", I mean Bucharest, Romania, Eastern Europe. And I don't know how people cope with the above in other countries, but in Bucharest the data for turn by turn navigation and for the public transport routes has to be refreshed very often, so I'm sure it's a PITA doing this for so many countries.

_djo_ 14y ago
Exactly. Google mapped the major urban centres of South Africa, my country, before the 2010 Football World Cup, but since then they've been regularly refreshing the data and adding map and Street View data for even small towns in out of the way places. The coverage they have is phenomenal, especially considering the fact that S. Africa is hardly a major country.
nickpp 14y ago
Google does NOT provide the maps data in Romania. Those maps are created by the public, unpaid volunteers, under onerous Terms and Conditions. They should direct their efforts to Open Maps instead...
- bad_user 14y ago
  I like GMaps because it gets me from point A to B, where B is usually vaguely defined. So it solves an important problem for me, which is why I like it, in spite of shortcomings such as being a closed proprietary product. I also do not think that the maps data in GMaps is created by "public, unpaid volunteers". This statement badly needs a reference. I once tried submitting the details of a business in GMaps and the process was so awful that I gave up. But while I do agree that volunteers would better spend their time with OpenStreetMap or similar, it is really none of your business how people choose to spend their time.

rkudeshi 14y ago

If Apple does switch to their own maps, I'm sure Google will come out with their own independent Google Maps app in the App Store, like they have for Google+ and other products. If nothing else, their database of businesses is hugely valuable and useful in its own app (it's what I use the Maps app for most and I don't think Apple will be able to fully replace it, at least not with the first iteration).

talmand 14y ago
But doesn't Apple tend to reject apps that duplicate OS features? Or has that changed?
tonfa 14y ago
> If Apple does switch to their own maps, I'm sure Google will come out with their own independent Google Maps app in the App Store, like they have for Google+ and other products. I thought Apple does not allow apps competing with the "core" apps.
- rkudeshi 14y ago
  That rule was dropped a long time ago. AFAIK, the only remaining restriction is using Safari's rendering engine for browser apps. Examples: * Opera vs Safari.app * Sparrow vs Mail.app * Vimeo vs YouTube app * Agenda vs Calendar.app * Kik vs Messages.app * Simplenote vs Notes.app (I believe it came out that that "rule" was only used as an excuse for Apple to delay the Google Voice app. After they finally agreed to let Google Voice on the App Store a year later, I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain about it.)
  - pmjordan 14y ago
    It's actually not the rendering engine but interpretation of code downloaded from the netwOrk (i.e. JavaScript) which must use Apple's interpreter. That interpreter happens to be tied into their browser, so using it for other things is impractical.
  - bookwormAT 14y ago

SkyMarshal 14y ago

Is street view anything more than a fringe benefit? Google Maps got popular long before they had it. As long as you've got detailed street maps, ideally with actual stores and whatnot at their addresses, that should be enough to roll out.

abruzzi 14y ago
A map application by itself is certainly useful, but streetview provides certain benefits that a map alone doesn't provide. For my uses it is critical. Every year I take a 7 day vacation with my father on our motorcycles. Streetview allows me to gauge to scenic quality of the road, if the satellite quality is bad, it allows me to see if the road it paved. It allows me to find out if Folsom, Torreon, or Lukachukai and other tiny towns we pass through have a gas station. I don't know much about the 3D stuff apple is working on, but I have my doubts that it will be able to do the above in remote places. I'm sure it will still work well as a map, but streetview provides real benefits that cant really be gotten without driving the road.
smackfu 14y ago
Street view or ISO (bird's eye) view are both indispensable to me, because they show store fronts instead of roofs. When I'm driving around, I can't see the roofs, so that does me no good.
antninja 14y ago
When I go to a job interview, I like to check what the street looks like and where is the entry of the building. It relieves some anxiety (although it didn't prevent me from getting completely lost once). Street view is one of the most useful features of online maps.
_djo_ 14y ago
I've found it very useful on more than one occasion, but that's not why it's so important. Rather it's that as a result of their Street View mapping Google has developed an extremely accurate map database of even obscure corners of the world which in turn has allowed them to offer turn-by-turn navigation for those areas.