3 ms·

> Listening to audiobooks is reading, end of story. Quit gatekeeping, What is it with people complaining about so called gatekeeping. Most of the time there is

> Listening to audiobooks is reading, end of story. Quit gatekeeping, What is it with people complaining about so called gatekeeping. Most of the time there is nobody guarding the gate to keep people outside. Usually, there is just some reality of life that if you don't put in the work, you don't get the reward. Listening to audiobooks, can be entertaining or very educating or boring just as reading a book. But I severely doubt that there are more then 10 human beings (obviously made up number) that can listen to a classic algebra math book with all the proofs and get the same learning experience as from reading and working through a paper book with a stack papers and a pencil. On the other hand, listening to Elon Musks autobiography is something I can do while driving without any problems. > FWIW, recently I've started listening to audiobooks of nonfiction books while also reading along with the physical copy. That is an interesting approach. I've bought several books in their paper and audio book form to listen them first and use the paper as reference later. I will try using both at the same time.

RheingoldRiver 3y ago
> What is it with people complaining about so called gatekeeping Because that's what it is. I spent a couple years reading /r/fantasy daily, and about once a month or so there would be a post something along the lines of "My SO/close friend/family member thinks I don't read because I listen to audiobooks. Are they right?" People believe there's debate about what they read there's debate about, and it can lead to accusatory comments like that. It's damaging when someone wants to be part of a community and feels like an outsider when they shouldn't. > that can listen to a classic algebra math book with all the proofs and get the same learning experience as from reading and working through a paper book 1. I recently watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxDd8ocpcHk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxDd8ocpcHk discussing what constitutes "valid" reading. Someone who reads 20 romance novels a month is a voracious reader just as much as someone who spends 3 years to get through Rudin. Reading romance novels is reading. Reading Star Wars novels is reading. Reading self-help books is reading. 2. Listening acuity improves with practice. If you listen at 3x speed (or faster, depending on the speed of the narrator), it's kind of incredible how many more words you can keep in your head at a time. 3. (This point is redundant because, see point 1) People attend math lectures all the time. Sure, there will be visual aids but who says you aren't supplementing with visual aids when you listen to an audiobook when you're learning something? And while I haven't researched it myself I'm sure there are a lot of accessibility options for listening to math that help a lot as well.
- funcDropShadow 3y ago
  > discussing what constitutes "valid" reading. How can reading be valid or invalid? In my opinion the usage of the word valid in such a context is complete, nonsense. It is similar to trans people proclaiming, they are invalidated by misgendering. Some go even as far as claiming that their right to exist is questioned. That all happens in the mind of the self-proclaimed victim. If I don't want to use made up pronouns that change every hour, I don't deny anyone the right to exist and live a happy live. I am simply exasperated by the ever growing demands of them. Back to reading. If you or anybody else doesn't feel welcomed enough by readers of great classical literature, it doesn't mean anything. Nobody is entitled to be respected as a "valid reader" by every other "valid reader" out there. If they don't see the value in what you read, it is their loss, who cares. Try to find someone else to form a peer group and don't complain about being kept out by a gatekeeper. > 2. Listening acuity improves with practice. If you listen at 3x speed (or faster, depending on the speed of the narrator), it's kind of incredible how many more words you can keep in your head at a time. That goes completely against my expectations and experience, with hearing up to factor 1,5 albeit. But, I'll try it. > 3. Usually students write down in math lectures. My overall point is, there is no such thing as "valid" or "true" reading. There are different modes of consuming long form texts, some have advantages over others for certain kinds of texts or certain kinds of consumers. [1] The fact that not everybody agrees on that should not make anybody feel being kept out. Expecting to be supported by everybody is a sure way to be disappointed. [1]: I've read somewhere, but can't find the reference at the moment. That the same complaints happened when people started to write down Homer's works instead of learning them by heart.

RheingoldRiver 3y ago

> What is it with people complaining about so called gatekeeping Because that's what it is. I spent a couple years reading /r/fantasy daily, and about once a month or so there would be a post something along the lines of "My SO/close friend/family member thinks I don't read because I listen to audiobooks. Are they right?" People believe there's debate about what they read there's debate about, and it can lead to accusatory comments like that. It's damaging when someone wants to be part of a community and feels like an outsider when they shouldn't. > that can listen to a classic algebra math book with all the proofs and get the same learning experience as from reading and working through a paper book 1. I recently watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxDd8ocpcHk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxDd8ocpcHk discussing what constitutes "valid" reading. Someone who reads 20 romance novels a month is a voracious reader just as much as someone who spends 3 years to get through Rudin. Reading romance novels is reading. Reading Star Wars novels is reading. Reading self-help books is reading. 2. Listening acuity improves with practice. If you listen at 3x speed (or faster, depending on the speed of the narrator), it's kind of incredible how many more words you can keep in your head at a time. 3. (This point is redundant because, see point 1) People attend math lectures all the time. Sure, there will be visual aids but who says you aren't supplementing with visual aids when you listen to an audiobook when you're learning something? And while I haven't researched it myself I'm sure there are a lot of accessibility options for listening to math that help a lot as well.

funcDropShadow 3y ago
> discussing what constitutes "valid" reading. How can reading be valid or invalid? In my opinion the usage of the word valid in such a context is complete, nonsense. It is similar to trans people proclaiming, they are invalidated by misgendering. Some go even as far as claiming that their right to exist is questioned. That all happens in the mind of the self-proclaimed victim. If I don't want to use made up pronouns that change every hour, I don't deny anyone the right to exist and live a happy live. I am simply exasperated by the ever growing demands of them. Back to reading. If you or anybody else doesn't feel welcomed enough by readers of great classical literature, it doesn't mean anything. Nobody is entitled to be respected as a "valid reader" by every other "valid reader" out there. If they don't see the value in what you read, it is their loss, who cares. Try to find someone else to form a peer group and don't complain about being kept out by a gatekeeper. > 2. Listening acuity improves with practice. If you listen at 3x speed (or faster, depending on the speed of the narrator), it's kind of incredible how many more words you can keep in your head at a time. That goes completely against my expectations and experience, with hearing up to factor 1,5 albeit. But, I'll try it. > 3. Usually students write down in math lectures. My overall point is, there is no such thing as "valid" or "true" reading. There are different modes of consuming long form texts, some have advantages over others for certain kinds of texts or certain kinds of consumers. [1] The fact that not everybody agrees on that should not make anybody feel being kept out. Expecting to be supported by everybody is a sure way to be disappointed. [1]: I've read somewhere, but can't find the reference at the moment. That the same complaints happened when people started to write down Homer's works instead of learning them by heart.