3 ms·

Nobody is forcing Apple to do business in the EU.

by IsTom 3y ago

carlosjobim 3y ago
Then go ahead and ban foreign companies from doing business in the EU or put a straight up importation tax on them, instead of squeezing them for money using dubious juridical manoeuvres. But expect the rest of the world to do the same to EU companies. And remember that EU companies do much more serious damage abroad than what Apple does to Spotify.
- nulld3v 3y ago
  I think many people (including me) would be happy if the rest of the world did to EU companies what the EU is doing to Apple...
  - dns_snek 3y ago
    An an EU resident, I agree. Every country should protect consumer rights, have oversight over corporations operating in their jurisdiction, and enforce anti-trust laws to ensure a functioning free market. Your problem seems to be that you see this as the EU doing something "to" Apple (for fun or whatever nefarious reasons you think they have), rather than the EU just doing their job in protecting its citizens against an economic aggressor. Your framing of this is actually kind of sad. This isn't an EU vs US issue, but citizens united against the evils of the dark side of capitalism.
    - nulld3v 3y ago
      > Your framing of this is actually kind of sad. This isn't an EU vs US issue, but citizens united against the evils of the dark side of capitalism. This framing was by the parent, I didn't come up with it and I don't agree with it either. > Your framing of this is actually kind of sad. This isn't an EU vs US issue, but citizens united against the evils of the dark side of capitalism. Yes, I know, hence why I would like if the rest of the world did to EU companies what the EU did the Apple: proper regulation. In fact, I would also be happy if the rest of the world did that to all companies as well.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  Foreign companies are just required to obey local law when operating in the EU. That's _normal_. Everyone does that. For that matter, it's not like antitrust is a purely EU concept. It's easy to forget, because the FTC has gotten a bit toothless over the last couple of decades, but it was once seriously looking at _splitting up Microsoft_, and of course US regulators actually did that to Bell back in the day. > But expect the rest of the world to do the same to EU companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal#Government_actions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal#G... Again, this is a thing, this happens. When EU companies break the law in other countries, those countries punish them.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    This ruling has nothing to do with law, this is the EU squeezing a fat hog for money while benefitting a domestic company. No honest person can argue that Apple is a monopoly in any market sector. And they haven't tried to limit competitors in the market the way Microsoft did. I don't expect EU judges to understand antitrust law and apply it correctly, but people here should understand the difference. If they want to squeeze Apple, just do it in a honest way by increasing taxes on electronics and associated services, like every other country does.
    - ambichook 3y ago
      > I don't expect EU judges to understand antitrust law and apply it correctly, but people here should understand the difference. i feel like the regulators of a jurisdiction understand antitrust laws within those jurisdictions better than people on HN
- pjc50 3y ago
  I don't understand this argument: it's not about the money, it's about the product compliance. It should be no more controversial than trying to sell appliances with the wrong plugs. (can you imagine how insane the appliance market would be if domestic plugs were DRM'd and you had to buy appliances from the maker of your house or pay a 30% platform fee?)

Nobody is forcing Apple to do business in the EU.

by IsTom 3y ago

Nobody is forcing Apple to do business in the EU.

Then go ahead and ban foreign companies from doing business in the EU or put a straight up importation tax on them, instead of squeezing them for money using dubious juridical manoeuvres. But expect the rest of the world to do the same to EU companies. And remember that EU companies do much more serious damage abroad than what Apple does to Spotify.

nulld3v 3y ago
I think many people (including me) would be happy if the rest of the world did to EU companies what the EU is doing to Apple...
- dns_snek 3y ago
  An an EU resident, I agree. Every country should protect consumer rights, have oversight over corporations operating in their jurisdiction, and enforce anti-trust laws to ensure a functioning free market. Your problem seems to be that you see this as the EU doing something "to" Apple (for fun or whatever nefarious reasons you think they have), rather than the EU just doing their job in protecting its citizens against an economic aggressor. Your framing of this is actually kind of sad. This isn't an EU vs US issue, but citizens united against the evils of the dark side of capitalism.
  - nulld3v 3y ago
    > Your framing of this is actually kind of sad. This isn't an EU vs US issue, but citizens united against the evils of the dark side of capitalism. This framing was by the parent, I didn't come up with it and I don't agree with it either. > Your framing of this is actually kind of sad. This isn't an EU vs US issue, but citizens united against the evils of the dark side of capitalism. Yes, I know, hence why I would like if the rest of the world did to EU companies what the EU did the Apple: proper regulation. In fact, I would also be happy if the rest of the world did that to all companies as well.
rsynnott 3y ago
Foreign companies are just required to obey local law when operating in the EU. That's _normal_. Everyone does that. For that matter, it's not like antitrust is a purely EU concept. It's easy to forget, because the FTC has gotten a bit toothless over the last couple of decades, but it was once seriously looking at _splitting up Microsoft_, and of course US regulators actually did that to Bell back in the day. > But expect the rest of the world to do the same to EU companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal#Government_actions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal#G... Again, this is a thing, this happens. When EU companies break the law in other countries, those countries punish them.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  This ruling has nothing to do with law, this is the EU squeezing a fat hog for money while benefitting a domestic company. No honest person can argue that Apple is a monopoly in any market sector. And they haven't tried to limit competitors in the market the way Microsoft did. I don't expect EU judges to understand antitrust law and apply it correctly, but people here should understand the difference. If they want to squeeze Apple, just do it in a honest way by increasing taxes on electronics and associated services, like every other country does.
  - ambichook 3y ago
    > I don't expect EU judges to understand antitrust law and apply it correctly, but people here should understand the difference. i feel like the regulators of a jurisdiction understand antitrust laws within those jurisdictions better than people on HN
pjc50 3y ago
I don't understand this argument: it's not about the money, it's about the product compliance. It should be no more controversial than trying to sell appliances with the wrong plugs. (can you imagine how insane the appliance market would be if domestic plugs were DRM'd and you had to buy appliances from the maker of your house or pay a 30% platform fee?)