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>violence (banishment) Are we redefining words to fit our agenda now? Edit: Downvoting is violence. :-)

by pb7 3y ago

dns_snek 3y ago
Parent comment used the same word to describe fines levied against Apple. It's an analogy, I was just using it in kind. Nobody is threatening Apple with violence either, merely fines.
- pb7 3y ago
  Parent comment used “monopoly on violence” correctly: the government can physically show up to your house and forcibly imprison you or even kill you if you resist hard enough. No one else can (legally).
  - dns_snek 3y ago
    That's great, but it doesn't apply to this situation in a literal sense, so I interpreted it figuratively. If you're going to police the figurative use of words, why don't you go after the parent poster for describing the situation as "barbaric"? Our (mostly) democratically elected leaders and regulators are protecting the EU citizens by imposing fines on misbehaving organizations. That's unquestionably civilized behavior.
- basil-rash 3y ago
  What do you think happens if the fines aren’t paid? Fines only work because if the implicit threat of violence behind them if the finor is not paid.
  - ambichook 3y ago
    if the fines arent paid, then apple as a corporation cannot operate in the EU (is banished) there arent going to be EU hit squads rocking up to punch apple executives for not paying fines
    - basil-rash 3y ago
      You say “cannot”, what does that mean? If they try, who will stop them, and by what means. My guess is they’ll be forcibly imprisoned, and if they resist there is very likely going to be a violent engagement between them and the State.
  - dns_snek 3y ago
    What happens? They garnish your wages or corporate bank accounts. By participating in society, you agree to follow the law, with prescribed penalties for breaking it. If you don't wish to participate in society, then you're free to leave, peacefully. I've yet to witness or hear about anyone facing violence over an unpaid fine in real life.
    - basil-rash 3y ago
      The argument being: “they aren’t being violent, they’re just threatening to rob me of everything I have unless I comply with their demands”? I’d prefer the roughing up scenario.
mjburgess 3y ago
It's not entirely clear why the power to destroy livelihoods, obtained by monopolistic network effects (ie., racketeering) is substantially different in kind than the power to fine and imprison. In that, many developers would gladly take a week in prison and a fine, over being banned from the app store; which is, in large effect, banning them from using their (developed, life-time specialised) labour effectively within an economy. It's weirdness of the rightwing american mentality, especially, that the potential collective physical aggression of the state has a special status in one's oppression (presumably the civil war, etc. plays a large part here). Since europe's civil wars are long-gone, the most relevant sort of oppression, for most people, is economic and metered out largely by monopolists.

>violence (banishment) Are we redefining words to fit our agenda now? Edit: Downvoting is violence. :-)

by pb7 3y ago

>violence (banishment) Are we redefining words to fit our agenda now? Edit: Downvoting is violence. :-)

Parent comment used the same word to describe fines levied against Apple. It's an analogy, I was just using it in kind. Nobody is threatening Apple with violence either, merely fines.

pb7 3y ago
Parent comment used “monopoly on violence” correctly: the government can physically show up to your house and forcibly imprison you or even kill you if you resist hard enough. No one else can (legally).
- dns_snek 3y ago
  That's great, but it doesn't apply to this situation in a literal sense, so I interpreted it figuratively. If you're going to police the figurative use of words, why don't you go after the parent poster for describing the situation as "barbaric"? Our (mostly) democratically elected leaders and regulators are protecting the EU citizens by imposing fines on misbehaving organizations. That's unquestionably civilized behavior.
basil-rash 3y ago
What do you think happens if the fines aren’t paid? Fines only work because if the implicit threat of violence behind them if the finor is not paid.
- ambichook 3y ago
  if the fines arent paid, then apple as a corporation cannot operate in the EU (is banished) there arent going to be EU hit squads rocking up to punch apple executives for not paying fines
  - basil-rash 3y ago
    You say “cannot”, what does that mean? If they try, who will stop them, and by what means. My guess is they’ll be forcibly imprisoned, and if they resist there is very likely going to be a violent engagement between them and the State.
- dns_snek 3y ago
  What happens? They garnish your wages or corporate bank accounts. By participating in society, you agree to follow the law, with prescribed penalties for breaking it. If you don't wish to participate in society, then you're free to leave, peacefully. I've yet to witness or hear about anyone facing violence over an unpaid fine in real life.
  - basil-rash 3y ago
    The argument being: “they aren’t being violent, they’re just threatening to rob me of everything I have unless I comply with their demands”? I’d prefer the roughing up scenario.

mjburgess 3y ago

It's not entirely clear why the power to destroy livelihoods, obtained by monopolistic network effects (ie., racketeering) is substantially different in kind than the power to fine and imprison. In that, many developers would gladly take a week in prison and a fine, over being banned from the app store; which is, in large effect, banning them from using their (developed, life-time specialised) labour effectively within an economy. It's weirdness of the rightwing american mentality, especially, that the potential collective physical aggression of the state has a special status in one's oppression (presumably the civil war, etc. plays a large part here). Since europe's civil wars are long-gone, the most relevant sort of oppression, for most people, is economic and metered out largely by monopolists.