5 ms·

I agree with the sentiment, but that's not entirely true. Video game console have pretty much always relied on this model to make money.

izacus 3y ago
Then let's kill that too. We don't need rent seekers killing free market competition.
- quesera 3y ago
  It is not rent-seeking when you built the house and perform the services for which payment is demanded.
  - GardenLetter27 3y ago
    They should be able to opt-out though. E.g. sell games but use no Xbox services on Xbox. I wonder if the DMA will bring Steam to consoles.
  - izacus 3y ago
    It's literally the definition of rent seeking and it's toxic to free market society. We don't want your landlord to get a cut of every thing you buy in their apartment. We don't want them to get a cut of every service you order. We dont't want them to get a cut of every single thing you buy while living in that apartment. We don't want those things for digital landlords either just because they deigned to put together some eletronics they were already paid for.
    - shuckles 3y ago
      Landlording is rent seeking because the landlord did not create the primary value of a property: place. This is not the same at all.
      - izacus 3y ago
        Neither did Apple, Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft. They already got paid for their iPhones, Xboxes, PS4s and Switches (consoles have stopped being sold with a loss around PS3 generation). Apple earns fat profits and margins on their hardware especially. Primary value is created by game developers, app developers and other people building things on top of those platforms.
        shuckles 3y ago
        If you believe this, then clearly you should believe that Spotify should be free after initial payment. After all, the recording artist was already paid, the mp3 exists, and the incremental cost to stream a song approaches $0.
        izacus 3y ago
        No, I don't clearly believe that. Don't strawman.
        shuckles 3y ago
        It’s not a strawman. It’s an application of your claim that up front payment gives rights to perpetual and arbitrary use of a product. Content DRM is as arbitrary and artificial as any iOS limitation.
      - quesera 3y ago
        The "primary value of a property" (place), then, does not keep you warm or protect you from rain or theft, has no amenities nor facilities to store your belongings. It does not supply water or electricity, and has no responsible party to keep it maintained. You might instead choose a open field, or under a bridge, which would require no rent payment.
        shuckles 3y ago
        The locational value of most property far outweighs the value of improvements on it. This is not a particularly controversial statement among economists. A 1000 ft. high rise in Antarctica is not very valuable. A lord who extracts taxes from peasants that grow crops on it does little to improve the ground.
- mopsi 3y ago
  Thankfully, that's dying on under its own weight now. Games have become so expensive to develop that sales from a single platform struggle to support many of them.
madsbuch 3y ago
Video games are not general applications, but a niche set of applications. The tradition I look into when downloading Spotify is WinAMP, VLC, FileZilla and the like.
- nozzlegear 3y ago
  That seems like an arbitrary distinction. I could say that iOS apps are not general applications, but a niche set of applications.
- Aloisius 3y ago
  Video game consoles run things besides video games. There's a Spotify app for both Xbox and Playstation for goodness sake.
Hikikomori 3y ago
To reduce the cost of the gaming console, does Apple loose money on selling iPhones?

izacus 3y ago

Then let's kill that too. We don't need rent seekers killing free market competition.

quesera 3y ago
It is not rent-seeking when you built the house and perform the services for which payment is demanded.
- GardenLetter27 3y ago
  They should be able to opt-out though. E.g. sell games but use no Xbox services on Xbox. I wonder if the DMA will bring Steam to consoles.
- izacus 3y ago
  It's literally the definition of rent seeking and it's toxic to free market society. We don't want your landlord to get a cut of every thing you buy in their apartment. We don't want them to get a cut of every service you order. We dont't want them to get a cut of every single thing you buy while living in that apartment. We don't want those things for digital landlords either just because they deigned to put together some eletronics they were already paid for.
  - shuckles 3y ago
    Landlording is rent seeking because the landlord did not create the primary value of a property: place. This is not the same at all.
    - izacus 3y ago
      Neither did Apple, Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft. They already got paid for their iPhones, Xboxes, PS4s and Switches (consoles have stopped being sold with a loss around PS3 generation). Apple earns fat profits and margins on their hardware especially. Primary value is created by game developers, app developers and other people building things on top of those platforms.
      - shuckles 3y ago
        If you believe this, then clearly you should believe that Spotify should be free after initial payment. After all, the recording artist was already paid, the mp3 exists, and the incremental cost to stream a song approaches $0.
        izacus 3y ago
        No, I don't clearly believe that. Don't strawman.
        shuckles 3y ago
        It’s not a strawman. It’s an application of your claim that up front payment gives rights to perpetual and arbitrary use of a product. Content DRM is as arbitrary and artificial as any iOS limitation.
    - quesera 3y ago
      The "primary value of a property" (place), then, does not keep you warm or protect you from rain or theft, has no amenities nor facilities to store your belongings. It does not supply water or electricity, and has no responsible party to keep it maintained. You might instead choose a open field, or under a bridge, which would require no rent payment.
      - shuckles 3y ago
        The locational value of most property far outweighs the value of improvements on it. This is not a particularly controversial statement among economists. A 1000 ft. high rise in Antarctica is not very valuable. A lord who extracts taxes from peasants that grow crops on it does little to improve the ground.
mopsi 3y ago
Thankfully, that's dying on under its own weight now. Games have become so expensive to develop that sales from a single platform struggle to support many of them.

madsbuch 3y ago

Video games are not general applications, but a niche set of applications. The tradition I look into when downloading Spotify is WinAMP, VLC, FileZilla and the like.

nozzlegear 3y ago
That seems like an arbitrary distinction. I could say that iOS apps are not general applications, but a niche set of applications.
Aloisius 3y ago
Video game consoles run things besides video games. There's a Spotify app for both Xbox and Playstation for goodness sake.

Hikikomori 3y ago

To reduce the cost of the gaming console, does Apple loose money on selling iPhones?